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#Post#: 21780--------------------------------------------------
PCN Red Route Ilford
DIR By: unknowndriver
Date: May 7, 2024, 3:57 pm
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Hello all,
Sorry i am posting this late, have not been home past week and a
bit so catching up now, i believe i only have two or so days to
appeal this within the 14 day period.
My mother drove the car with my sister, they thought the maps
was taking them the wrong way, my sister re routed when they got
on the main road and maps then pointed to drive in the opposite
direction they came from. I realise its also a red route and
there are some issues with them but not sure if that make any
difference in this instance.
Have attached the PCN
Can anything be done about it or shall we pay up?
Thanks for your time
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 21782--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 7, 2024, 4:29 pm
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Video shows you stopped for about 9 seconds that doesn't seem
verry long, but is probably not what an adjudicator would
consider de minimis. You also went onto the pavement, so could
have been walloped for that instead, it being an offence to park
off-carriageway in London since the 70s.
To be frank, the contravention itself would seem to be made out,
but that is not necessarily game over. Experts on here are very
much up-to-speed on camera approvals and so on and can find
arguments to support an appeal to the adjudicators. Remember
that the council have to obey the law just like you have to, so
if they err in doing so they cannot enforce the PCN, it's as
simple as that.
So wait a bit to see what others say but don't miss the deadline
to submit representations on the PCN. We usually always
recommend submitting representations as councils can err when
responding. If you submit reps within the discount period, the
discount is usually always re-offered when they respond by
rejecting those reps, so you lose nothing.
#Post#: 21890--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
DIR By: unknowndriver
Date: May 8, 2024, 7:08 pm
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Thank you for your reply
I believe today is the last day to submit reps within the
discounted period.
I do also think that I may just have to pay, I think my mum
stopped for those 9 seconds to confirm the route and then turned
around.
Hopefully someone is able to help soon otherwise I might just
chance it with the appeal and see what happens
#Post#: 21902--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 9, 2024, 3:40 am
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We always suggest that representations are submitted, rather
than just 'coughing-up' straightaway. So submit reps on the
basis of a minimal stop of less than 10 seconds to check route,
due to doubt. Post up their response when you get it, and then
further investigations can be done during the re-offered
discount period.
#Post#: 21949--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
DIR By: unknowndriver
Date: May 9, 2024, 9:44 am
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I have submitted an appeal as to the advice you have given
I shall come back when I get a response
#Post#: 22607--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 15, 2024, 1:40 pm
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[member=450]unknowndriver[/member] Transport for London have
come to the rescue!
It was held in Transport for London, R (on the application of) v
London Tribunals (Environment and Traffic Adjudicators) [2023]
EWHC 2889 (Admin)
HTML https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2023/2889.pdf
that
double red lines require an upright sign for CCTV enforcement to
be permitted (see paragraph 17).
In this case as there is no upright sign, the definition of a
red route found in regulation 11 of The Civil Enforcement of
Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging
Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/11
is not
met, so service of a postal PCN is a procedural impropriety.
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