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#Post#: 1160--------------------------------------------------
Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop - Dagenham
Heathway
DIR By: Kirbs
Date: July 12, 2023, 9:23 am
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Cross-posted from pepipoo (thanks cp8759!):
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150625
Hi all,
As per title - I've received a PCN today for stopping in a bus
stop. To be clear, I hold my hands up on this one - totally at
fault, I was dropping off a neighbour on the way through, and
accept I should not have stopped at the bus stop. But there's no
love lost between me and the LBBD council, so looking for
something to avoid having to give them any money.
PCN, all pages:
HTML https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtrfspPXTIQKga8pY3cMMqhy5DDmig
Google Street View of location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/THzyR6ttukZb84qh7?g_st=ic
Any advice appreciated - even if the advice is just "stop being
a prat, pay the reduced fine and don't stop in any more bus
stops!"
Thanks,
Kirbs
#Post#: 1165--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop -
Dagenham Heathway
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 12, 2023, 9:42 am
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Well the contravention looks banged-to-rights:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juJr1hIaW4E
That being said, three issues arise:
1) There appear to be 13 bus stops on this road, and the PCN
doesn't tell you which one it is,
2) There is no evidence of the mandatory yellow plate in the
council video, and
3) We have no idea if the camera is approved for parking
enforcement.
In the first instance I'd make a basic vague locus
representation:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,
I challenge liability for PCN BZ99407252 because the alleged
contravention did not occur. I further bing a collateral
challenge on the basis that the PCN does not adequately
particularise the grounds on which the penalty charge was
issued, because the location is not specified with adequate
precision.
I have checked and there are some 14 bus stops on Heathay, and
the penalty charge does not specify where exactly the
contravention is alleged to have taken place. It is well
established that the PCN must state not just what the alleged
contravention is, but also where the alleged contravention is
said to have taken place, and the penalty charge notice served
in this instance is defective in this regard.
It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully
[/indent]
In the meantime I'll try and find out the make and model of the
camera.
#Post#: 1174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop -
Dagenham Heathway
DIR By: Kirbs
Date: July 12, 2023, 12:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, much appreciated. I'll get the suggested challenge text
sent off to B&D Council and see what their response is - knowing
them, I'm guessing it will be a swift rejection.
I'm assuming that not mentioning the other grounds at this stage
of challenge doesn't rule them out from use later on, if needed?
#Post#: 1197--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop -
Dagenham Heathway
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 12, 2023, 4:43 pm
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That's correct, you can always add more stuff later on.
#Post#: 1215--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop -
Dagenham Heathway
DIR By: Kirbs
Date: July 13, 2023, 2:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
An update: I have gone onto the PCN to challenge it, and before
I can enter text to support the challenge, LBBD have required me
to select a reason for challenge. Screenshots uploaded into the
folder with the PCN pictures, and text copy-pasted below.
Would this affect the strength of a challenge? I could say
"picking up or dropping off a passenger" and it is very clear
that I was doing that from the video evidence, but does that
prejudice the claim that the contravention did not occur?
ETA: Upon reading the whole list, it stinks of a fishing
expedition. "I was unaware of the rules" and "I only stopped for
a few minutes" - I know for a fact the council don't accept
these as legitimate excuses, so why are they on the list, with
the implication that they are?
Parking
Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand (Camera Enforcement)
We will consider your appeal according to our appeals policy. If
your reason for appeal is not listed in the policy, we are
unlikely to accept it. However we will still consider your case
individually.
Pay and display (P&D) or Cashless
The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving
P&D tickets or cashless parking sessions.
Select a reason:
I was in a rush and forgot to pay
I went to get change
My card payment was declined
Permits
The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving
parking permits.
Select a reason:
I had a permit
Blue Badge
The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving
Blue Badges
Select a reason:
I had a Blue Badge
Emergency / beyond driver's control
Reasons that relate to something unexpected happening to the
motorist that must be seen to immediately
Select a reason:
I became unwell while driving
I parked at the location because I needed the toilet
I stopped because of an emergency situation
I was delayed due to a medical or urgent condition
My passenger became unwell while I was driving
My vehicle had broken down
My vehicle was cloned
My vehicle was stolen
PCN wrongly / unfairly issued
Reasons where it may appear that the PCN was issued unfairly or
incorrectly.
Select a reason:
I only stopped for a few minutes
I was not at the location on the day
I was not served the PCN
I was not the driver
I was not the owner / keeper of the vehicle
I was only a few minutes late back to my vehicle
I was unaware of the rules
My vehicle was not outside the bay
The vehicle was on hire to someone else
There was nowhere else to park
Other
Other reasons we have received that do not fall into one of the
above categories.
Select a reason:
A friend / family member recently passed away
I didn't see any signs or lines
I was loading / unloading at the time
I was picking up / dropping off a passenger
My vehicle is a taxi
The owner of the vehicle has passed away
None of the above
If none of the above reasons apply, and you wish to challenge
your PCN, please select below:
Select a reason:
Any other reason
#Post#: 1254--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop -
Dagenham Heathway
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 13, 2023, 5:11 pm
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Just select "any other reason".
#Post#: 2307--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop -
Dagenham Heathway
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 1, 2023, 6:31 am
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Just got this response back from the council:
[indent]
The Camera details as follows:
Make and Model Bosch MIC 7502 IP camera 258 The Heathway
(Opposite Heathway Station)
[/indent]
#Post#: 2666--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop -
Dagenham Heathway
DIR By: Kirbs
Date: August 5, 2023, 5:12 pm
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Thanks cp8759. Is that an approved make and model for the
camera?
For the record, the challenge was sent off via the website using
"any other reason" and your wording as advised - I have yet to
receive any response from the council. I suppose it's just a
waiting game now...
#Post#: 2715--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop -
Dagenham Heathway
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 6, 2023, 8:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kirbs link ---
>
> Thanks cp8759. Is that an approved make and model for the
camera?
>
--- End Quote ---
It depends which certificate they rely on at the tribunal.
#Post#: 3132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking & Dagenham - 47J - Stopped in a bus stop -
Dagenham Heathway
DIR By: Kirbs
Date: August 12, 2023, 6:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As predicted, rejection from the council received in yesterday's
post. Pictures uploaded to the folder, but text also reproduced
below:
***
Notice of Rejection of Representation
Traffic Management Act 2004
(details of PCN and appeal number)
Your vehicle was recorded by our CCTV Enforcement Camera
contravening parking restrictions on Heathway (Dagenham).
The Council has issued and served a Penalty Charge Notice as the
aforementioned vehicle was recorded by an approved device
stopped on 'stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand'. The CCTV
footage was reviewed by a CCTV operator who deemed that a
contravention has occurred.
The contravention occurs when a vehicle other than a public
service vehicle operating a scheduled service waits during
prescribed hours on a restricted bus stop or a bus stop
clearway/red route marked by yellow markings and the words 'BUS
STOP' or 'BUS STAND'.
I have noted your comments and I have checked all the evidence,
I can confirm that the location is correct and is very clear
that the vehicle was stopped on a restricted bus stop, therefore
the PCN was issued correctly.
We have again reviewed the CCTV footage and have considered the
representations you have submitted. Unfortunately, you have not
satisfactorily demonstrated in your appeal that an exemption
applies. The other points submitted in mitigation do not justify
the cancellation of the PCN.
See attached the photo evidence:
(photo evidence here)
This letter is a formal Notice of Rejection. Therefore, before
the end of the period of 28 days, beginning with the date of
service of this Notice of Rejection, ("the 28-day period"), you
must either:
- pay the full amount of £110
- appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators ("ETA"),
please note that payment at the discounted amount will no longer
be available if your appeal is unsuccessful
As you made your challenge within the period during which the
discounted amount of £55.00 was payable, we are willing to
reoffer this discount until the end of the period of 21 days
beginning with the date of service of this letter. If payment is
not received within this period, then the full amount of £110.00
will be due.
If you wish to appeal then you may do so online at
www.londontribunals.org.uk Your verification code for the appeal
is 91H313 and you will need to input this in order to appeal. If
you are unable to appeal online then you can submit your appeal
by post using the Appeal Form enclosed with this letter.
You should be advised that:
- The Adjudicator cannot consider mitigating circumstances
The Adjudicator's decision is binding on you and us
- Costs may be awarded against either side if the Adjudicator
considers that they have acted in a frivolous, vexatious or
wholly unreasonable manner.
If you wish to pay the charge, payment can be made as follows:
(details of how to pay here)
If you do not pay or make an appeal to ETA during the 28-day
period then we may increase the Penalty Charge by 50% and we may
serve a Charge Certificate, at which point the Penalty Charge
will be £165.00. Please note however that the Adjudicator may
consider a late appeal, provided that you give sufficient
reasons for the delay. If we receive notification of an appeal
after the Charge Certificate has been served then we will cancel
the Charge Certificate and the charge will revert to the full
amount of £110.00.
Yours sincerely,
***
The postal appeal form for a Moving Traffic Penalty Charge
follows the above.
Is it really enough to contest a vague locus representation by
just saying "I can confirm the location is correct"?
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