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#Post#: 21244--------------------------------------------------
27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway,
lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: LemonTootski
Date: May 1, 2024, 3:50 pm
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Hi There,
I wonder if one could cast eyers over this one.
Parked on a lowered driveway, but trhe driveway was closed a
closed off, residential place. No opening and no obstruction.
A street parking officer issued this.
Considering the no obstruction occurred, i wondered is there a
case for no conrravention?
Your thoughts would be most appreciated.
Thanks.
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#Post#: 21247--------------------------------------------------
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a
footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: guest17
Date: May 1, 2024, 4:15 pm
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HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/ovWHpnanz9Gs5di99
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86
I would say it's defunct therefore no contravention.
However if it was designed to allow cyclists to leave the
carriageway and enter Stanedge Court then you would be in
difficulty.
Mike
#Post#: 21258--------------------------------------------------
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a
footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 1, 2024, 5:12 pm
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Here it is in July 2008; no fence and clearly dropped to give
access : -.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/qvhxFKbsRuaaF4SF7
Later views show a fence with a gate, like here, July 2012, the
next time the GSV camera van passed: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/3rQ13zVAnEi7i7dL8
So I think it is pretty clear that the purpose of this dropped
kerb has gone. And what's more GSV shows that it has so a
credible appeal can be assembled if the council prove to be
obdurate.
#Post#: 21381--------------------------------------------------
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a
footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 2, 2024, 6:03 pm
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[member=1458]LemonTootski[/member] I am extremely worried by
your screenshot and this in particular:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/QHMOi4V.png
Please can you confirm if the notice to owner has been received,
and if so whether a formal representation has been made?
#Post#: 21387--------------------------------------------------
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a
footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: LemonTootski
Date: May 2, 2024, 6:55 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=1458]LemonTootski[/member] I am extremely worried by
your screenshot and this in particular:
>
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/QHMOi4V.png
>
> Please can you confirm if the notice to owner has been
received, and if so whether a formal representation has been
made?
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi cp8759,
Yes, i completely realise I've left this a little late. Was
completely inundated with other bits and pieces as life gets in
the way. notice to the owner has been received, and no
representation has been lodged to date. We're just a little late
on this one.
But despite the PCN being the full amount, I'm just seeing if
there's a case to be made as per the use (non-use) as per
Incandescent's point:
--- Quote ---
>
> So I think it is pretty clear that the purpose of this dropped
kerb has gone. And what's more GSV shows that it has so a
credible appeal can be assembled if the council prove to be
obdurate.
--- End Quote ---
It's probably likely the council won't uphold the Rep, and I
might have to appeal. Does anyone know if there's has been any
successful prescendents
Googling, shows a lot of cached information for PCN 27 on the
old Pepipoo fightback forums, but unfortunately, the page/forum
is no more (Why did we stop this useful resource,, with all this
wealth of information?)
And fiunally, on Mike's point:
--- Quote ---
> I would say it's defunct therefore no contravention.
>
> However if it was designed to allow cyclists to leave the
carriageway and enter Stanedge Court then you would be in
difficulty.
--- End Quote ---
If you assert that it's defunct and therefore no contravention,
how would one encapsulate this in the form of a representation?
I do realise that if it's not likely this case is in my favour,
than just to cut my losses and cough up ... But would first
like to explore all avenues, as the initial overriding reason
just for being at that spot was my understanding that the use of
the dropped kerb (as entrance to residential area) is no longer
in practice (Seeing the history from google street view
imagery).
Any thoughts?
#Post#: 21389--------------------------------------------------
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a
footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 2, 2024, 7:03 pm
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Please post the Notice to Owner. I have a dreadful feeling
you've left everything too late and have lost the option to
submit reps against it.
#Post#: 21478--------------------------------------------------
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a
footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 3, 2024, 4:22 pm
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[member=1458]LemonTootski[/member] well most unhelpfully you've
redacted the PCN number and the number plate so we're flying
blind as we can't check the amount outstanding.
All you can do at this point is check for yourself, if the
website still allows you to I suggest you submit a
representation right this very second (not tomorrow morning)
just saying that the alleged contravention did not occur. This
should make it easy for them to issue a notice of rejection
which is what you want.
If the PCN has already gone up to £165 let us know and we'll
have to attempt an out of time representation, but there's no
guarantee the council would agree to consider it.
#Post#: 21489--------------------------------------------------
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a
footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: LemonTootski
Date: May 3, 2024, 5:42 pm
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Hi there, thanks for your input. Fortunately, the fine is still
at £110.
I can still make representations. The Council PCN notice details
on the website states:
--- Quote ---
> The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increase to
£165.00 on Fri, 31 May 2024. Please pay £110.00 now.
--- End Quote ---
So I guess there's nothing to lose now in spending time
investigating this.
Why is it still £110 and not £165?
Lambeth actually extended the allotted time. After seeing the
ticket, i popped into a corner ship for a minute. When I
returned to my car I discovered that some schoolkids had ripped
off the ticket from the car. Consequently, I had to contact the
council to request a re-issue, which they did, 14 days later,
hence, granting the additional time. As such, I still think
there might be a case to investigate the legality of the
contravention - and there is still time.
So the route I'm thinking of is the initial use of the dropped
curve (as seen in historic GSV photos), is no longer the case.
Yet i lack the firm evidence and legal backdrop to clarify this,
and thus contest the contravention - hence i am here.
If we believe there is absolutely no case to make (between now
and say, 29 March), then I guess I am happy to cut my losses,
pay the £110, and put it down to experience. This post would
also help others in same situation.
But if it can be contested and and evidence proving the
contravention is not enforceable, this would be highly
beneficial to others.
Thanks for listening - Do let me know your thoughts.
#Post#: 21503--------------------------------------------------
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a
footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 3, 2024, 6:38 pm
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[member=1458]LemonTootski[/member] this is really simple and
does not require any extensive investigation:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Lambeth,
It is only a contravention to park adjacent to a dropped kerb if
the kerb has been lowered for one of the statutory purposes
listed in section 86 of the Traffic Management Act 2004. It is
obvious from the Google Street View history that this particular
dropped kerb was originally installed as a bin access ramp for
the bins stored in Stanedge Court, see the image from July 2008
at
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/TSeQBmMtahEK7yreA
It might have been arguable that the lowered kerb could also be
used by cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, and there
is nothing to suggest that a "dual purpose" lowered kerb could
not be enforced under section 86.
However by September 2020 access to this lowered kerb from
Stanedge Court had been blocked off by the installation of a
permanent fence, as shown by the image at
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/xt9in4vkLXkPxhxs6
That fence was present at the time of the alleged contravention
and as far as I am aware, is still there.
As such the kerb no longer fulfills any of the statutory
purposes at section 86 of the TMA 2004, even if one accepts that
the kerb was ever lowered for the purposes of the statute.
I refer you to the case of Abigail Mendy v London Borough of
Enfield (2160476330, 4 January 2017) and while I know councils
love the mantra that first-instance cases are not binding, there
is simply no reason to suppose the tribunal would reach a
different conclusion in this instance.
In light of the above the alleged contravention did not occur,
and the penalty charge must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Submit this online and please make sure to keep a screenshot of
the confirmation page.
#Post#: 21601--------------------------------------------------
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a
footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
DIR By: LemonTootski
Date: May 5, 2024, 8:12 am
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Thanks very much for this. I actually came across the Mendy case
by doing some Google research, but could not find/read this
case. Do you have a link?
A Google search points back to the old PePiPoo Fightback Forums
- and sadly, this resource website is down. Please tell me the
treasure trove of information can still be available to the
public. I do hope this site is archived.
But cp875, thanks for this template for a rep. Before I submit,
I just wanted to clarify. You stated:
--- Quote ---
> As such the kerb no longer fulfils any of the statutory
purposes at section 86 of the TMA 2004, even if one accepts that
the kerb was ever lowered for the purposes of the statute.
>
--- End Quote ---
Is that your assumption, or is it in fact?
I ask, because it is indeed my (and anyone else's) reasonable
assumption that an old dropped kerb next to a blocked
off/no-longer used entrance. no longer fulfils its purpose, but
where is this explicitly manifested in statutory law? Does the
installation of the green fence nullify this, and is there
precedent ? (I'm hoping this Mendy case which i cannot see, has
similar precedent).
Any concrete info would be more than reassuring, thanks.
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