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#Post#: 20706--------------------------------------------------
Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without displaying
pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: Parky24
Date: April 26, 2024, 8:33 am
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On Wednesday the 17th of April. I parked in Bluebell Lane car
park in Penrith.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/423F6XMeEwgKKkAaA
I
went to the only meter to pay, it was covered up. There was a
notice . Picture below
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/200628771@N08/53680000536/in/dateposted-public/
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/200628771@N08/53680363104/in/dateposted-public/
I thought the public notice was a little unclear and wasn't
aware of any special parking arrangements but I just assumed
charges did not apply until 19/4
I received a parking ticket . Picture below
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/200628771@N08/53680462865/in/dateposted-public/
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/200628771@N08/53680463080/in/dateposted-public/
I took a photograph of the machine and the notice and sent these
together with my informal challenge.
I have now received a letter rejecting my challenge. Picture
below
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/200628771@N08/53680001066/in/dateposted-public/
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/200628771@N08/53680000526/in/dateposted-public/
There is no other machine in this car park. However, on the
other side of a public road, there is another car park which I
have never used. There's a different entrance. So I always
considered them two separate car parks. Have I got grounds for a
further challenge?
#Post#: 20710--------------------------------------------------
Re: Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without
displaying pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: April 26, 2024, 10:32 am
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Post the photos of the notice on the machine
#Post#: 20725--------------------------------------------------
Re: Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without
displaying pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: Parky24
Date: April 26, 2024, 2:25 pm
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I posted it already. First link is google maps, then 2 photos.
2nd photo is the "public notice "
#Post#: 20731--------------------------------------------------
Re: Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without
displaying pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 26, 2024, 4:55 pm
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HTML https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24249313.parking-arrangements-penrith-end-gas-works-completed/
#Post#: 20732--------------------------------------------------
Re: Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without
displaying pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 26, 2024, 5:52 pm
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Well, first off, their letter is correct in stating there is
more than one machine, because here it is: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/mFXofFz64Qafv94Z8
You can see the car park name is the same as the one you took
photos of. So what appears to be two separate car parks is
actually a single named car park.
As for the sign, I am puzzled why you took the letter as meaning
payment was not needed, because it doesn't say that.
However, their letter is quite disingenuous, because any normal
visitor would assume there were two separate car parks. Just
covering up a ticket machine without giving any notice of where
another might be located is also dreadfully bad practice,
bearing in mind the other machine is not visible from the one
you went to.
The main point now, is whether you feel sufficiently aggrieved
enough to stand your ground and take the matter all the way to
adjudication at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal (TPT). This would
mean foregoing the discount, waiting for the Notice to Owner,
(sent to the name and address on the V5 Registration Certificate
for the car), submitting a formal representation, getting
rejected, then registering an appeal at the TPT. Appeals at the
TPT are mostly by phone, but there is now a remote video
facility offered.
HTML https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/
My own opinion is that going to adjudication would be something
of a gamble, but others may differ so wait a bit and see what
they say.
#Post#: 20739--------------------------------------------------
Re: Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without
displaying pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: Parky24
Date: April 27, 2024, 2:46 am
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Thanks for taking the time to answer. Had i read the notice
beside a meter where i could pay, i would have paid. It was the
combination of covered meter and notice that made me think
payment was not required
#Post#: 20740--------------------------------------------------
Re: Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without
displaying pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 27, 2024, 2:49 am
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.which rather fits with this which I drafted while you were
posting:
I think an argument to the effect that you interpreted the
combination of notice and covered machine as meaning that the
council had suspended parking charges in the car park as a means
of replacing lost and free on-street capacity due to the 'gas
works' is worth advancing if indeed this is what you inferred
from the context.
But it's difficult to do this if initial reps have put forward
an alternative and contradictory position.
So, your initial reps pl and confirm who is the registered
keeper and whether their DVLA details are current.
#Post#: 20755--------------------------------------------------
Re: Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without
displaying pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: guest17
Date: April 27, 2024, 6:56 am
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They regard them as one car park:-
HTML https://www.eden.gov.uk/media/1238/tro_bluebelllanepenrith.pdf
However IMO there are two car parks separated by a main road and
the OP was only obliged to look for a working meter in that car
park.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/93KQrhoE6kqzimAu9
The parking conditions, because of the gas works, are described
here:-
HTML https://www.westmorlandandfurness.gov.uk/news/2024/penrith-free-parking-during-gas-works-0
Clear as mud--free parking overall or only after 3pm?
The Council have been less than clear in the note posted on the
ticket machine and have failed in their duty not to mislead or
confuse drivers.
Reading that note and seeing the ticket machine hood, one is
entitled to draw the conclusion that parking is free.
I would continue.
Mike
#Post#: 20761--------------------------------------------------
Re: Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without
displaying pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 27, 2024, 9:12 am
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It should be borne in mind that the conditions of parking are
those conveyed in the car park itself and not any other medium.
MMV and I have posted the council/local newspaper references and
these set the general context. But it's what's in the car park
which counts.
With respect, I think the two or one car parks and there being
another machine, which may or may not have also had a hood
placed over it, we don't know*, are secondary if the OP is
advancing the argument that the hood (which did NOT indicate out
of order but tothe driver that it was not to be used...because
payment was not required by virtue of the 'special car parking
arrangements' referred to in the notice = no charge argument
because this doesn't impose any requirement upon the OP to look
elsewhere.
But if the OP simply claimed in their initial reps that the
machine wasn't working and did not develop this within the
context of the notice then IMO their challenge is made more
difficult.
OP, pl post your initial reps and confirm the details about the
registered keeper.
*- simple answer could be that the council actually covers the
machine(s) to prevent drivers paying and whoever was supposed to
do so failed to remove it/them after end of charging hours
(6pm)the day before.
#Post#: 20762--------------------------------------------------
Re: Westmorland & Furness. Code 83. Parked without
displaying pay& display ticket. Bluebell Lane Penrith
DIR By: Parky24
Date: April 27, 2024, 9:32 am
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Thanks to you all for taking the time to read and respond. I am
the registered keeper. Unfortunately I cannot post my original
response as it was done online and I didn't think to take a
screenshot. Basically, I said that I had gone to the meter to
pay but finding it covered and seeing the notice beside it I
assumed that payments were suspended until Friday 19th April. I
was unaware of any special parking arrangements. I made no
mention of the other car park - it would never have occurred to
me to pay there. I don't read the local papers and would have
had no reason to look up the council web site to check parking
arrangements/charges.
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