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#Post#: 20702--------------------------------------------------
Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: silentbob
Date: April 26, 2024, 7:53 am
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Hi all,
Thanks in advance for reading and appreciate responses.
I parked my motorcycle in Shrubbery Road
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/kq4oHLU2TRXhe8Qc6
at 13:00. I know in
Lambeth I need to park in motorcycle bays and had checked the
pdf linked below where I can park. Viewing the PDF on my mobile,
I understood that at the bottom of the page would be the end of
the council, as the rest of the map is marked out. Thus south
would then be Croydon Council where it is legal & free to park a
motorcycle on the road sign posted the same.
HTML https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/parking/parking-restrictions/where-you-can-park/motorbike-parking
HTML https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-06/Lambeth_Broroughwide_Motorcycle_Bays.pdf
I have challenged the PCN stating that I followed the map and I
understood that the end of the map meant the end of the council
boundary. And that in neighbouring council (where I thought I
then was) this parking would be legal and no grounds for a PCN.
( I also have diagnosed ADHD)
They have replied denying my, not commenting on the map being
confusing and saying there is a sign explaining it is a
residents/p&d parking place.
Is it worth me challenging this further as I followed the
information available online? Feel a bit hard done by the
situation as the map is incomplete and can confuse?
Many thanks in advance,
silientbob
#Post#: 20921--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 28, 2024, 5:13 pm
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@silientbob you've given us nothing to work with, please read
the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>and post all the documents so that we can give you proper
advice.
#Post#: 20959--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: silentbob
Date: April 29, 2024, 3:42 am
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Hi [member=1]cp8759[/member]. I haven't uploaded anything else
as it holds no relevance. Ultimately, I have parked in a
residential/pay & display bay and haven't paid for it.
The reason I had not was due to the information that I received
from the councils website on where motorcycle parking's are
available (Linked in OP).
My only available argument is that the map can easily be
misunderstood as the bottom does not continue, meaning this
could be misunderstood as this being the end of the council
boundaries. Which is what I did.
HTML https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-06/Lambeth_Broroughwide_Motorcycle_Bays.pdf<br
/>
The street I parked in South, out of picture.
actual boundaries
HTML https://lambethcouncil.maps.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=52384ef5cff74b48a0d5be365a935d00
I hope this helps,
Thanks
#Post#: 20962--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 29, 2024, 3:59 am
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--- Quote from: silentbob link ---
>
> Hi [member=1]cp8759[/member]. I haven't uploaded anything else
as it holds no relevance.
>
--- End Quote ---
How do you know it holds no relevance?
How do you know all the small print on the PCN is correct?
How do you know the traffic management order creates the
contravention stated on the PCN?
How do you know the photos discharge the council's burden of
evidence?
With the best will in the world, you came here for advice so I
suggest you let us actually give you legal advice based on the
facts of the case, rather than deciding for yourself what has
relevance.
Of the 600+ appeals I did last year, the vast majority were won
on grounds that the appellants thought had no relevance.
#Post#: 20994--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: Princeperch
Date: April 29, 2024, 9:40 am
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[member=1593]silentbob[/member] you have privileged access here
to someone who is probably the foremost expert on pcns in this
country, and how to beat them. Whatever he tells you to do you
would be well advised to do it, even if you dont agree or
understand why!
#Post#: 20995--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: silentbob
Date: April 29, 2024, 10:03 am
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[member=881]Princeperch[/member] Yeah I realise thanks. Going to
update now :)
#Post#: 20997--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: silentbob
Date: April 29, 2024, 10:27 am
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Hi [member=1]cp8759[/member]
My apologies, that was short sited of me and I appreciate you
coming back to me.
I have added the PCN, evidence pictures, my informal appeal and
their reply to onedrive
HTML https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aj3c3f67viWDguh63WAOsjQHpfC2Vw?e=lXqkQa
I will update my OP to include this too. edit - modify is locked
now so cannot.
Thank you for your time
#Post#: 21021--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 29, 2024, 2:25 pm
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Please can we see the back of the PCN?
I have checked the traffic order and also the red route
designation order for this road and I can't see any obvious
problems there, however the council appears to have quite
plainly misunderstood your representation.
Nothing you mentioned in your informal representation amounts to
a statutory ground of appeal, but you're entitled to have your
representations considered by someone who actually understands
what you are saying.
It also sounds like you might have some pretty compelling
mitigation, though you probably don't want to post the
supporting evidence on a public forum. I think it would be worth
using evidence of your financial situation for the strategy of
last resort
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/city-of-edinburgh-02-parked-in-a-restricted-street-lochrin-buildings-gilmour-pla/msg7413/#msg7413,<br
/>if that get a failure to consider there is then a procedural
impropriety on the basis of which you could appeal to the
tribunal.
Don't worry about the discount, as long as the notice to owner
is challenged within 14 days of the date of issue the discount
will almost certainly be reoffered.
Which leads to the most important question: is the bike
registered to you, do you have the V5C, and is the address up to
date?
#Post#: 21408--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: silentbob
Date: May 3, 2024, 5:14 am
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Hi [member=1]cp8759[/member]
Thank you for your reply. I have updated the onedrive link to
include the back of the PCN.
Yes, that is how I felt from their reply, they just ignored the
issue I raised with the map on the councils website.
My V5C, addresses etc are all correct and up to date.
So from what I understand, I will not pay, wait the 28 days and
once receive the Notice to Owner I will then challenge this
within the 14 days (formal appeal)
I have read the post you have linked. Is it worth me trying to
argue both points in the Formal challenge or try one strategy
and stick with it?
At the end of this I want them to update their map to include
the entire council as for someone not familiar with the area
there is a good chance they could do the same thing as me. Don't
include a map of the borough on where to park with part of the
borough missing when it shows the outlines in other areas.
Thanks again and have a good day
#Post#: 21411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - PCN 12s - without permit/p&d - Motorcycle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 3, 2024, 5:36 am
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--- Quote from: silentbob link ---
>
> So from what I understand, I will not pay, wait the 28 days
and once receive the Notice to Owner I will then challenge this
within the 14 days (formal appeal)
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, except it's a formal representation, not an appeal. It only
becomes an appeal at the tribunal stage.
--- Quote from: silentbob link ---
>
> I have read the post you have linked. Is it worth me trying to
argue both points in the Formal challenge or try one strategy
and stick with it?
>
--- End Quote ---
I suggest when you get the notice to owner post it up on here,
together with a draft formal representation, and we'll review it
for you.
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