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       #Post#: 20444--------------------------------------------------
       Red Route - TFL
   DIR By: philou
       Date: April 23, 2024, 8:24 pm
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       All,
       A colleague of mine recently received a Red Route PCN and was
       simply wondering if there is any ground for challenging it at
       all please? PCN attached. I currently don't know the history
       except that he was parked for more than 20 minutes. Let me know
       of any questions please.
       Thanks
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/AO2ZASy.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/q1kYes1.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/YZcxVRF.png
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 20455--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Red Route - TFL
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: April 24, 2024, 3:39 am
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       More information is needed, like where was the vehicle parked
       exactly. The PCN was served by hand, so no video. Please post a
       GSV link to the exact location.
       It's going to be somewhere along here, (quite a short distance),
       where the red lines and a couple of Red Route bays are because
       this is the A10, and is TfL controlled. Further along, Northwold
       Road goes to yellow lines, and the A10 goes off right along
       Rectory Road
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/gczPEvmsDJYLJe4m6
       #Post#: 20487--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Red Route - TFL
   DIR By: philou
       Date: April 24, 2024, 6:29 am
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       Hi Incandescent
       thanks for the note. Please see exact location where PCN was
       issued:
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/6FwZyKz7hFiMN6fy5
       He informed me he was in the vehicle, being stationary, for a
       little over 4 mins (PCN shows time he was being observed
       13:08-13:12) when PCN was still being issued. Apparently the TFL
       warden "threw" the ticket at him while he was in the car?!  :(
       #Post#: 20495--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Red Route - TFL
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: April 24, 2024, 8:35 am
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       So presumably he didn't read the sign for the bay, shown in the
       GSV view ?
       If he wasn't loading or had no Blue Badge displayed, then the
       contravention is made out. However, this may not be the end of
       the game, so wait and see what the others say. I believe there
       may be a "technical" defence.
       #Post#: 20503--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Red Route - TFL
   DIR By: philou
       Date: April 24, 2024, 10:53 am
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       Thanks once again
       It would be fair to say that it would be difficult to miss the
       sign, given he was in the bay. However his rationale was because
       he was offloading some tiles and wouldn't take longer than the
       signage's stipulated time, he thought it'd be safe.
       #Post#: 20518--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Red Route - TFL
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: April 24, 2024, 1:36 pm
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       --- Quote from: philou link ---
       >
       > Thanks once again
       >
       > It would be fair to say that it would be difficult to miss the
       sign, given he was in the bay. However his rationale was because
       he was offloading some tiles and wouldn't take longer than the
       signage's stipulated time, he thought it'd be safe.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       But unloading tiles counts as loading, so submit reps on that
       basis.
       #Post#: 20555--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Red Route - TFL
   DIR By: philou
       Date: April 24, 2024, 11:17 pm
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       Thanks Incandescent,
       Will get him to draft something and will post it here for review
       before submission if that's ok.
       Cheers
       P
       #Post#: 20560--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Red Route - TFL
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: April 25, 2024, 3:16 am
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       --- Quote from: philou link ---
       >
       > Thanks Incandescent,
       >
       > Will get him to draft something and will post it here for
       review before submission if that's ok.
       >
       > Cheers
       >
       > P
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       And tiles are heavy things; not things one would want to carry
       any distance, so emphasise their weight.
       #Post#: 20887--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Red Route - TFL
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: April 28, 2024, 12:09 pm
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       The traffic order is The GLA Roads and GLA Side Roads (Hackney)
       Red Route Consolidation Traffic Order 2007
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nKIasnoMqHziJSAr2N9ClJfbAK76Wwbg/view,<br
       />the relevant entry is item 15 on page 80.
       --- Quote from: philou link ---
       >
       > Will get him to draft something and will post it here for
       review before submission if that's ok.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It looks like something was already submitted on Friday, can we
       see a copy please?
       Here are the TFL photos:
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/YuD8cJb.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/PQ0Hkih.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/Ic7O8nP.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/cfcsIkR.jpeg
       --- Quote from: philou link ---
       >
       > Apparently the TFL warden "threw" the ticket at him while he
       was in the car?!  :(
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I don't suppose he has a dashcam or any witnesses who can
       confirm this? Did he open the window as he was driving off, and
       crucially had the car started moving at the point where the PCN
       was thrown?
       The photos show that no PCN had been served and the last photo
       shows the car wheels had started moving at the time when the
       photo was taken, this could be important but first we need a
       precise account of the sequence of events. If the car has a
       dashcam with footage of the events, that's even better. The case
       of Michael Boakye v London Borough of Bexley (2200234487, 7
       August 2020)
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NC8JPe0gqLeX0CXxf8MYK-yMHumOpXaf/view<br
       />illustrates the issue, but I know there is one floating around
       where the PCN was actually thrown through the window and landed
       in the driver's lap, that was also held not to be good service.
       Lastly it seems this might have been a PCSO (as far as I can
       work out the T at the end of the CEO number indicates it's a
       Traffic PCSO), which opens up the uniform argument.
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