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#Post#: 20407--------------------------------------------------
Penalty Charge Notice - Rochdale Council - East View Car Park,
Middleton - Failure to display ticket
DIR By: motor
Date: April 23, 2024, 11:50 am
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Hi All,
1.TOPIC TITLE. give the details of the penalty charge notice
(PCN) – include:
Council name or other authority: Rochdale Council
The alleged contravention (summarise - no need to quote in
full): Parking without displaying a valid ticket
Location: East View Car Park, Middleton
2. Outline your case/tell your story/explain the problem and how
we might help:
I received a parking fine on 30/03/24 for not displaying a valid
ticket in a pay and display car park (which is free from 0-3
hours). I entered the car park by following the Sat Nav via an
entrance that I am now aware is an exit. There aren't any
no-entry signs, and there was a car in front of me doing the
same thing so I didn't see the arrow on the road pointing out.
See photo of the route in that I took:
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJzVpY
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJzVpY
At this location in the car park,
there was no rules board or ticket machine. I exited on foot
via this same route, and wasn't met with any signs. I came back
on foot from the other side of the car park, and it was at this
point I noticed the rules board and machine, and then noticed a
ticket on my car.
See photo of machine and rules board:
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJBbhd
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJBbhd
Please see below link to image showing my route in, and circled
where I parked. The X shows where the ticket machine and rules
board is, and the other circle is where a very small "Pay and
Display" sign was located:
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJAyDt
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJAyDt
See another image from street view showing where I parked, and
that the ticket machine and rules board wasn't obvious.
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJAyDo
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJAyDo
On StreetView in 2015, there was a sign stating "have you paid
and displayed?" at this exit. See photo:
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJutTX
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJutTX
- this photo also clearly shows the
exit I took which has no signs to suggest I needed to display a
ticket in this car park. This "have you paid and displayed?"
sign is no longer there, see photo
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJA5Hh
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJA5Hh
I logged the first stage appeal based on the signage being
unclear, and that there used to be a sign on exit reminding
people which is now no longer there. Am I correct in thinking
that if this sign used to be there, it was part of the design
and deemed important for compliance? Now it is no longer there,
it isn't compliant to the original plans/design?
The council rejected my claim within 1 day.
3. Post the PCN and all subsequent notices or correspondence.
See photos of parking ticket, front and back:
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJyPZ4
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJyPZ4
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJAAjh
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJAAjh
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJzX5S
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJzX5S
See below photos of the rejection notice:
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJNoVx
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJNoVx
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJL2tj
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2pJL2tj
I have until Friday (3 days) to pay this fine at the reduced
rate, however I would like to hear some experienced advice as to
whether I should fight this case or not. I feel the signage was
so unclear that I was fooled into thinking I didn't need a
ticket.
4. Location on Google Maps and StreetView
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/p4EUdfHfpJCPief39
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/p4EUdfHfpJCPief39
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/rdoWjBG4bAhqU5Tp9
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/rdoWjBG4bAhqU5Tp9
#Post#: 20409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice - Rochdale Council - East View Car
Park, Middleton - Failure to display ticket
DIR By: lexy
Date: April 23, 2024, 12:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Did you post this exact same thing a week ago? It looks
familiar.
The council has a duty to put a rules sign / tariff board
somewhere fairly obvious. And you have a duty to have a look
around for it when you park. You shouldn't have to go hunting
for it but it should be somewhere sensible. They've put it right
at the entrance, which is honestly the most sensible place they
could have put it. Those 'have you paid and displayed' signs
have no legal standing and they're not required - they're just
reminders/warnings from the old days before councils could issue
penalty charge notices so easily.
The fact that you drove in the exit doesn't really help. I
suspect an adjudicator would decide that if you looked around
the car park, you probably would have seen the machine and sign.
You're not parked right next to it, but you're not a million
miles away either. They'll probably say you should have seen it.
One minor technicality on the paperwork - there isn't a physical
address you can send payment to. That used to be a strict
requirement and I believe it still is, although I'm open to be
corrected on that point (I live in Scotland where the laws are
slightly different). In fact, they openly state "Do not send a
cheque" which is a little bit weird.
#Post#: 20426--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice - Rochdale Council - East View Car
Park, Middleton - Failure to display ticket
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 23, 2024, 3:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If you wait for the Notice to Owner, and submit formal
representations it is almost inevitable they will reject your
reps. So the next step would be to take them to the adjudicators
where I think it would be something of a gamble. You appear to
have done nothing at all to check whether you could park there
freely or not. The ticket machine and board is not far away, and
GSV shows other signs "Have you paid and displayed" around the
car park. Are these all missing too ? Thinking one can park for
free in a large city nowadays is being a bit naive, frankly.
Of course you have the absolute right in law to take them
through the full process, so if you feel you are justified in
doing so, do it, but it would be for the full PCN penalty, but
no more than this. There are no additional costs at the
adjudicators.
#Post#: 20452--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice - Rochdale Council - East View Car
Park, Middleton - Failure to display ticket
DIR By: motor
Date: April 24, 2024, 3:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your reviews of this case for me.
I do agree and appreciate that I didn't do my due diligence and
take more care to check the rules.
I'm not sure if it's important to point out that when you
mention "Thinking one can park for free in a large city nowadays
is being a bit naive, frankly." the car park is free 0-3 hours,
I just hadn't followed the rules to display a free ticket.
My frustration is how misleading this car park route of entry
is, especially when I'm not familiar with the area (I live 150
miles from it), and there aren't any no-entry signs.
There were quite a few cars in the car park with tickets, who'd
clearly not noticed the signage/machine too, and I saw some
using the same route in that I used.
I think I should put this down as a lesson learned and not a
battle to fight - I'll pay the reduced rate PCN.
Thanks again for your help.
#Post#: 20457--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice - Rochdale Council - East View Car
Park, Middleton - Failure to display ticket
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 24, 2024, 3:52 am
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Sorry, I didn't want to upset you. However, how did you know you
could park for 3 hours for free, because you say you never
looked at the car park board, or the ticket machine ?
#Post#: 20458--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice - Rochdale Council - East View Car
Park, Middleton - Failure to display ticket
DIR By: motor
Date: April 24, 2024, 4:01 am
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No problem. It was after the event that I found out it was free
for 0-3 hours - when I came back into the car park using a
different entry, I saw the machine and rules board.
#Post#: 20814--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice - Rochdale Council - East View Car
Park, Middleton - Failure to display ticket
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 27, 2024, 2:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1562]motor[/member] I disagree with virtually everything
that has been said above, starting with "Thinking one can park
for free in a large city nowadays is being a bit naive,
frankly": I know of free parking within a few minutes of central
London.
We also should remember that the starting point is that the
enforcement authority must positively prove its case, there is
no burden on the motorist to prove he is innocent.
Looking at GSV in 2023 here
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/WCPki7yNLedWZ3mt5
there is no evidence
of any signage, it looks like a free car park to me, and there
are indeed car parks around the country that are free including
in some very popular spots.
I am also very suspicious of an informal rejection that provides
no photographic evidence, if they had a photo showing any
evidence of signage in relation to your car you'd expect them to
provide it.
It is true that if signs are visible you are under a duty to go
up and read them, but if there is no signage apparent and
visible from your vehicle or your route out of the car park,
there is no duty to go and inspect every corner of the car park
"just in case".
I would wait for the notice to owner, in the meantime could you
confirm if you're in a position to go back and get some updated
photos?
It's also worth remembering that these small provincial councils
are quite prone to making mistakes because they handle so few
appeals at the tribunal. Some of these small authorities do
fewer appeals in a year than Lewisham or Lambeth deal with in a
week.
#Post#: 20828--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice - Rochdale Council - East View Car
Park, Middleton - Failure to display ticket
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 27, 2024, 3:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> I disagree with virtually everything that has been said above,
starting with "Thinking one can park for free in a large city
nowadays is being a bit naive, frankly": I know of free parking
within a few minutes of central London.
--- End Quote ---
Please let us all know where it is !
#Post#: 20875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice - Rochdale Council - East View Car
Park, Middleton - Failure to display ticket
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 28, 2024, 10:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote]I disagree with virtually everything that has been said
above, starting with "Thinking one can park for free in a large
city nowadays is being a bit naive, frankly": I know of free
parking within a few minutes of central London.
--- End Quote ---
Please let us all know where it is !
[/quote]
Rotherhithe peninsula where I lived for a number of years, you
can park within 5 minutes walk of Canada Water station, which is
only 2 stops from London Bridge on the jubilee line.
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