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       #Post#: 1058--------------------------------------------------
       PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: harryharoon
       Date: July 9, 2023, 3:33 am
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       I am posting for the first time here:)
       Received this pcn from the southward council. Walworth Road,
       Junction Elephant Road.
       I performed a prohibited right turn, according to the council.
       Would like to know if there is any chance to appeal against it?
       I recently went to the site where the contravention seemed to
       have taken place.
       Noticing that there are bus lanes on both sides of the road,it
       is quite possible that
       when I did make the right turn, the signs were obscured the
       buses.( the video I have taken would indicate that too)
       If we take it to the adjudicator, the only sign the council can
       rely on is one on the road
       asking motorists to go straight ahead ( it is an instruction not
       a prohibition)
       Here are the links that would help. (google drive)
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G92ytf5Dum-vE-TGoz4mXWTCjyRVyNpC/view?usp=drive_link
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hMi5ArOqAS_2FIzJssfMkKs7tpuEdUT1/view?usp=drive_link
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tmb7nH9MvmJugp1DEzObsuNzfcX3vdDl/view?usp=drive_link
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1phCrp2QcmEW1QNpj0nq_NqfakZ--Ju_l/view?usp=drive_link
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/13bCV0pRDieJF2UP7P0fGd0mb2zeo9_KS/view?usp=drive_link
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MBv11XII-lks6hMntM_hExSvNeVtIWkW/view?usp=drive_link
       If the google drive does not work here are the links on dropbox
  HTML https://www.dropbox.com/s/szf271pkwsrfgop/1...887127.jpg?dl=0
  HTML https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vihbi3w6qzeee4/1...887136.jpg?dl=0
  HTML https://www.dropbox.com/s/cvjfy6nt7ytafnq/1...887155.jpg?dl=0
  HTML https://www.dropbox.com/s/i8xkfm2s92l3vzt/V...205123.mp4?dl=0
  HTML https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2frpb3ixjgxic3/V...205024.mp4?dl=0
       Your help would be appreciated.
       #Post#: 1105--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: IanO
       Date: July 10, 2023, 5:31 pm
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       You need to please post all sides of the PCN (just hide your
       address), couldn’t spot it in the links you shared
       #Post#: 1116--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: harryharoon
       Date: July 11, 2023, 7:50 am
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       Please find attached the pcn copy. Thank you
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 1137--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: July 11, 2023, 6:13 pm
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       You need to give us the PCN number and number plate please.
       #Post#: 1200--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: harryharoon
       Date: July 12, 2023, 5:08 pm
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       Thank you.
       Pcn Number JK04655133
       NK20ZYV
       #Post#: 1212--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: July 12, 2023, 6:31 pm
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       Video:
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkt95cwQqAM
       Sign:
  HTML https://goo.gl/maps/f3nAVf4yWnrQWvVS8
       Traffic order: The London Borough of Southwark (Prescribed
       Routes) (Various Streets) (No. 4) Traffic Order 2011
  HTML https://bit.ly/3C4Zn1O
       It would basically be down to whether you could persuade an
       adjudicator that both signs happened to be obstructed by buses,
       but you aren't in a position to say that that's what happened
       (if you remembered there being buses on boths sides of the road
       you would have said so), you can only say that that might have
       happened.
       I would definitely make representations because as long as the
       council receives them during the initial 14 day period they will
       reoffer the discount, but unless they make some sort of
       procedural mistake in the rejection, I can't really see anything
       that warrants risking the full penalty at the tribunal.
       As always we recommend you put a draft representation on here
       before sending it to the council.
       #Post#: 1285--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: harryharoon
       Date: July 14, 2023, 5:46 am
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       Thank you for your feedback.
       Few things I would like to mention.
       1) Just had a look at the pcn again, it does not say that you
       have to appeal within 14 days to be able to retain discount, in
       case of a rejection.
       2) The only road marking which can be visible is on the road (
       with some wear and tear), but that is an instruction not a
       prohibition.
       3. If it goes the adjudicator will they have any other footage
       for my car or they will only rely on the one that they have put
       up on the pcn?
       Regards
       Harry
       #Post#: 1296--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: July 14, 2023, 7:07 am
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       1) The council doesn't have to re-offer the discount at all, we
       just happen to know that they do if you make representations
       within 14 days. There is no legal right to have the discount
       extended, and they don't have to tell you that they will extend
       it.
       2) The road markings are irrelevant, they don't need any road
       markings at all. The upright signs on their own would be quite
       enough, so I'm really not sure why you're so focused on the road
       markings?
       3) At the tribunal they won't have any additional footage of
       your car, but they will have library photos showing the upright
       signs.
       #Post#: 1334--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: harryharoon
       Date: July 15, 2023, 9:03 am
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       2. I talk about road markings because if the other two signs are
       obscured, the council would like to rely on the markings on the
       road
       #Post#: 1335--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Received for doing a wrong turn in Southwark
   DIR By: harryharoon
       Date: July 15, 2023, 9:06 am
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       Is tomorrow the last day of me appealing?
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