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#Post#: 19990--------------------------------------------------
FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: ghostivv
Date: April 19, 2024, 8:14 am
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Not sure if this is the right place to post this but one of my
friend was handed a FPN for Engine Idle. Tried few searches but
came up with none so posting here to see for an advice. This is
the first time I am aware of getting fine for just waiting
inside car with engine on. No information on how to appeal so
looks like either pay or court process?
Thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 20009--------------------------------------------------
Re: FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 19, 2024, 1:47 pm
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Not sure on this one. You could try PMing the administrator,
cp8759 The FPN comes under criminal law, not civil.
#Post#: 20304--------------------------------------------------
Re: FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 22, 2024, 1:06 pm
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Well this is a criminal matter so I've moved it to where there
are people with expertise on criminal law and procedure.
The first issue to establish is whether your friend identified
himself to the officer, if he was merely handed a ticket then
the council would have no evidence of who the driver actually
was (and obviously in a criminal case the prosecution bears the
burden of proving each element of the offence beyond reasonable
doubt).
I also know as a fact that many council prosecutions are brought
in the hope that they won't be defended and if a defendant
actually turns up to court, they just drop it. I know this
because a local authority solicitor I met in an east London
magistrates court openly admitted this to me.
#Post#: 20327--------------------------------------------------
Re: FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: April 22, 2024, 3:27 pm
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The top line of the FPN sees, to be to a named person?
There can still be defences to such cases, but often that is a
matter of fact and a full (truthful) description of events
leading up to the alleged offence, also what may or may not have
been admitted at the time (fail to mention now etc.)
Example, defrosting a car on a cold morning may require a period
of idling to ensure the car is safe to drive, obviously not
applicable here which is why I deliberately used that as an
example.
#Post#: 20425--------------------------------------------------
Re: FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: Lodesman
Date: April 23, 2024, 3:11 pm
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I notice that the offence covered a period of two minutes.
Are they being serious ?
Surely we can all think of valid reasons for an engine to be in
motion for that short period of time.
#Post#: 20428--------------------------------------------------
Re: FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: sparx
Date: April 23, 2024, 3:34 pm
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The PSPO for Hillingdon appears to be here:
HTML https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/media/12164/PSPO-Parks-and-Public-Places-2023/pdf/i8PSPO_Parks_and_Public_Places_final_2023_1__2.pdf
and section e
--- Quote ---
> e) A person commits an offence if without reasonable excuse,
they leave a parked or
> stationary vehicle engine running on any part of the Public
Highway.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 20432--------------------------------------------------
Re: FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: Lodesman
Date: April 23, 2024, 4:01 pm
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Did he “leave” the car with the engine running?
I suppose the definition of “leave” is important.
The OP stated that the driver was in the car at the time so he
obviously did not “leave” (go away), whether he “did leave” the
engine running for two minutes without good reason is another
matter. He may have had “good reason” to do so.
#Post#: 20435--------------------------------------------------
Re: FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: April 23, 2024, 4:29 pm
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Seems like the OP needs to say why the engine was idling.
#Post#: 20446--------------------------------------------------
Re: FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: 666
Date: April 24, 2024, 12:19 am
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The PSPO seems to be wholly redundant, since there are already
two offences under the C & U Regs.
Para (e) seems a poor attempt to paraphrase reg 107, which
prohibits leaving the vehicle with the engine running. whereas
reg 98 covers the OP's situation, i.e. still sitting in the car.
#Post#: 20448--------------------------------------------------
Re: FPN Hillingdon Council for Engine Idle
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: April 24, 2024, 12:47 am
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--- Quote from: Lodesman link ---
>
> I notice that the offence covered a period of two minutes.
> Are they being serious ?
> Surely we can all think of valid reasons for an engine to be
in motion for that short period of time.
>
--- End Quote ---
We can, but whether any apply or not is a different question,
which is why the example I picked was one that couldn’t apply as
I don’t want to ‘lead the witness’.
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