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#Post#: 19942--------------------------------------------------
Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: LoneStartState
Date: April 18, 2024, 5:45 pm
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Hi there again
My girlfriend has been sent a PCN for being in a bus lane in
Slough. See attached for redacted PCN.
Video is here
HTML https://youtu.be/Ev1QTJBuLnA
Time of alleged contravention is just under 4 minutes prior to
restriction end and as can be seen, not a huge deal of intrusion
prior to the lane ending anyways (~15 metres, maybe less based
on measure distance on Google Maps).
GSV location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/iG7k3gziDoZpNuBR7
Hoping as an initial start that de minimis/plea for discretion
can apply for this.
Let me know if you guys spot anything else
LSS
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 19951--------------------------------------------------
Re: Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 18, 2024, 6:37 pm
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Well, of course it is the usual money-grubbing PCN we see so
often on here, but with her being 4 minutes before the end time,
she might struggle with de minimis, I'm afraid. The problem with
this argument, is it's subjective, there is no definition of de
minimis. It it was a minute or less, you can argue that a car
clock can never be accurate to the exact second and there are
successful appeals that support this.
Of course you can try it, but you'd be on stronger ground if we
can find a procedural impropriety somewhere, but at the moment,
I don't see one, the PCN looks OK to me. The video shows her
driving boldly into the start of the bus lane and presumably all
the way to the end of it, true ?
So wait a bit and see what the others say. If it were me I'd
submit reps on a de minimis basis to see what they come back
with. As this is a postal PCN under the TMA 2004, they have 56
days to reply.
Other thing to mention is that the council may have published
guidance on enforcement that covers this, but you'd have to
search around for it. If that acknowledged de minimis, and gave
the limit they work to, then you'd be in a stronger position, I
think.
#Post#: 20224--------------------------------------------------
Re: Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 21, 2024, 5:06 pm
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Well the starting point is that we need the traffic order, so I
have requested that. I have also asked for the make and model of
the CCTV camera, so that we can check whether it is properly
approved.
In order to buy as as much time as possible to get the
information back, I'd recommend making a representation on 28
April as doing so should get the discount extended for several
weeks. A basic please for discretion / de minimis will do for
the purposes of just buying us some time, but still put a draft
on here in the first instance.
It would also be worth double checking that the signs visible on
google street view are actually still there, you never know what
might turn up.
#Post#: 20826--------------------------------------------------
Re: Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: LoneStartState
Date: April 27, 2024, 3:27 pm
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Thanks both for your feedback. See below draft representations.
Any feedback welcome. Will plan to submit tomorrow.
"Dear Slough Borough Council
I wish to make representations against PCN SB41647918 on the
following grounds:
Plea for discretion
Alleged contravention is de minimis
I was returning from a day trip to Windsor and staying with
family nearby in Langley. Whilst travelling down the A4 and
seeing the bus lane ending, I began to merge left into the
unoccupied lane I saw in the distance. Merging left
prematurely, my vehicle entered the Sussex place bus lane for
approximately 2 seconds and 15-20m prior to its end. This was
the final bus lane in a series of bus lanes spanning an
approximate 250m stretch of the A4. No unfair advantage was
gained by me over other road users through this premature
action. The detection time on the PCN shows there was less than
4 minutes (or roughly 1.6%) of the restriction period remaining.
I would ask that you consult with statutory guidance and
consider cancelling the PCN in the first instance exercising
your discretionary powers based on the points raised above.
In the alternative, I would request the council to cancel the
PCN on the basis of the alleged contravention being too trivial
to enforce, or de minimis. This is in light of the time left
prior to restriction end, the distance and time the vehicle was
in the bus lane, and the lack of any advantage gained over other
road users.
Thank you in advance"
#Post#: 20937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 28, 2024, 6:25 pm
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Yes that's spot on for present purposes.
Are you able to go back and check the condition of the signs?
#Post#: 21051--------------------------------------------------
Re: Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: LoneStartState
Date: April 29, 2024, 5:27 pm
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Reps submitted today with screenshot captured.
Unfortunately neither myself or girlfriend are that local but
may be able to check in the interim period as her family are
around there. From memory she believes the bus lane sign was
there for that stretch.
Will let you know of any decision outcome in due course.
#Post#: 21785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 7, 2024, 4:55 pm
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FOI response from the council:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/jWKh1g6.png
The camera certificates at
HTML https://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/tma-part-6-list-of-approved-devices/approved-device-certifications-slough.zip<br
/>don't tie back to that make and model.
The Borough of Slough (Various Roads) Bus Lane Order 2020
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/14Od8Z_u8xvlpaAHIEfDcbvnOPt-JSiJe/view.
#Post#: 22003--------------------------------------------------
Re: Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: LoneStartState
Date: May 9, 2024, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for this info.
I guess this allows a safe assumption those cameras are not
approved devices.
No response to reps from council as of yet.
#Post#: 22006--------------------------------------------------
Re: Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 9, 2024, 6:07 pm
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--- Quote from: LoneStartState link ---
>
> Thanks for this info.
>
> I guess this allows a safe assumption those cameras are not
approved devices.
>
> No response to reps from council as of yet.
>
--- End Quote ---
So it would seem.
Regulation 4 on what is an approved device : -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/4/made
Then one looks at Schedule 1 : -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/1/made
#Post#: 24164--------------------------------------------------
Re: Slough Borough Council Being in a Bus Lane Sussex Place
DIR By: LoneStartState
Date: May 27, 2024, 5:16 pm
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Hello again
I submitted reps on behalf of my girlfriend for this PCN. The
submission stated an acknowledgement email would be sent that
she didn't receive. There's a possibility I might have
accidentally entered an incorrect email address when submitting
the reps.
I've been tracking the ticket on the portal. Early last week it
was still at £35. I've checked today and it's now back to the
full amount of £70. Just getting her to double check her email
inbox/spam folders for any possible NOR.
If I've accidentally submitted an incorrect email address and an
NOR was sent to that incorrect email address, the PCN can still
be appealed to the adjudicators with the original PCN ref and
VRM?
I will get her to contact SBC as a matter of urgency to make a
data rectification notice and get the NOR in the meantime
anyways.
Thanks in advance
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