DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 19807--------------------------------------------------
Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: belt
Date: April 16, 2024, 8:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello all,
My father (disabled badge holder) parked in a disabled bay,
displayed his blue badge with correct time... then came back
about 20 minutes later to find a penalty charge on the
windscreen.
HTML http://www.sweetkorner.com/pcn1.jpg
HTML http://www.sweetkorner.com/pcn2.jpg
He rang the council and spoke to someone who apparently
sympathised with his plight. He was promised a call back, but
heard nothing since.
I asked him to go back a few days later and take a photo of the
sign. My father interpreted the mention of "permit" as meaning
the disabled badge itself.
[img width=1040
height=780]
HTML http://www.sweetkorner.com/1713119038476.JPEG[/img]
I have never seen such wording. If it referred to a certain type
of permit, I would expect it to specify further (e.g. "resident
permit holders") or show the representation of the permit (e.g.
"C9") in a black box. The disabled symbol below the "P" makes it
look like a regular disabled parking bay, at least to me it
does.
Location is here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/XwkvBGUEtWx5iUR56
Any help with this would be really appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
#Post#: 19855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: northwalian
Date: April 17, 2024, 3:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
As a fluent Welsh speaker, I have always understood the word
"trwydded" as "licence", not "permit" Permit is "caniatad".
Regardless of the English displayed, I would always read the
Welsh first as it's the first on the sign, and it would mean, to
me, "disabled badge holders with a licence only".
#Post#: 19856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 17, 2024, 4:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Obviously he didn't notice this sign as he entered the Guildhall
Rotunda car park, which is for permit holders and council
visitors only : -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/fGQuBrodzJvrtjxW7
I presume if you are a council visitor, you have to register
your car at the council offices on arrival.
As a car park, it has spaces set aside for BB holders, but
obviously, the overriding need for a permit remains.
I think he should submit informal reps against the PCN stating
that the sign for the car park conditions is set very low at the
entry point so he must have missed it, and ask for them to
cancel on this ocasion. ALso make sure you include details of
the BB and clock which was displayed as normally required.
#Post#: 19973--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: belt
Date: April 19, 2024, 5:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Many thanks for all your help.
I am going to aid him to make an informal representation on the
basis you have suggested, Incandescent.
By the way "Trwydded" does indeed mean "licence" in Welsh. His
driving licence says "Trwydded Yrru" right at the top.
Adding to the confusion the parking ticket uses a different word
for "permit": "hawlen".
Perhaps this should be mentioned to them?
Thanks again.
#Post#: 19985--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 19, 2024, 7:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, put it in. Is he a a native Welsh speaker ?
#Post#: 20174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: belt
Date: April 21, 2024, 11:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Yes, put it in. Is he a a native Welsh speaker ?
>
--- End Quote ---
Not a native Welsh speaker but as an additional language (like
most in Swansea).
He read the Welsh version as he understood it completely.
Reading it once in each language, he expected more clarity...
unfortunately the two versions give slightly different meanings.
#Post#: 20348--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 22, 2024, 5:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1509]belt[/member] well this could be fun, the Traffic
Penalty Tribunal does allow proceedings to be conducted in Welsh
so it should be possible to request a Welsh-speaking
adjudicator.
Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders
(Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18<br
/>obviously apply to Wales so I would argue the signage is
inadequate.
However this would have to be taken to the tribunal as I doubt
the council would concede its signage is inadequate.
Can we have the PCN number please? As per the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/,<br
/>there's no point in hiding it.
In the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order, the last
time we looked at a bay such as this the traffic order turned
out not to exist.
#Post#: 20358--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: belt
Date: April 22, 2024, 9:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The PCN number is WJ06163498.
Thanks for your help!
#Post#: 20792--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 27, 2024, 12:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well I can see why people would easily get caught out here:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Bq4VlEx.jpeg
[member=1440]northwalian[/member] if I draft a representation
would you be able to repost it in Welsh?
#Post#: 20827--------------------------------------------------
Re: Swansea - code 16 - without valid permit - Guildhall Rotunda
DIR By: northwalian
Date: April 27, 2024, 3:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Go for it, but I have to say the difference between the spoken
Welsh we use up here in the north is a million miles from
anything written for legal or semi-legal needs. (compare street
English and what's in the Bible). I'd use English myself for
something 'important'.
Certainly happy to translate but wouldn't it end up in a
Welsh-language tribunal hearing?
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 3
DIR Next Page