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#Post#: 19556--------------------------------------------------
Sutton Council - not displaying valid P&D ticket (incorrect
reg)
DIR By: 911bill
Date: April 12, 2024, 7:08 am
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Hello,
Posting here as I received a PM to do so.
Good Evening all,
Driver has picked up a PCN in a pay and display carpark.
A ticket was obtained from the machine, which wasn't overly
responsive to the press of buttons apparently, hence the first 2
characters not showing, but a ticket was obtained. The car park
is free for the first 2 hours, and payment is required for any
time over 2 hours. You must obtain a ticket, regardless.
The ticket was left on the dashboard, as can be seen in the
picture below, clearly visible.
The car registration on the ticket, is missing the first 2
characters. Driver had let our 4 year old do the machine, which
he did wrong and then driver did it, who clearly got it wrong as
well and mentioned the buttons weren't great. Either way, an
oversight but clearly displayed on the dashboard and the
characters of the registration on ticket match the last 3
character of the registration displayed on the vehicle.
Driver went in to the associated supermarket to complain about
it but was told, this happens all the time, they can't do
anything but if you appeal, it should get cancelled.
So, here I am, just wanting to get advice on doing this
properly.
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648074209_0464f7d4db_z.jpg
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648194490_9f246fb939_z.jpg
I have the option to appeal, which I intend on doing but before
I appeal with the above story, I am obviously here to seek the
correct way of doing this or if the mistake has deservedly
earned the PCN with no way of appeal.
Various pictures taken of the car and ticket, which can be seen,
the fault here is clearly the first 2 characters being missing
from the ticket.
They have shown a test ticket, which is all well and good but
this would not account for hard to press buttons but I won't
argue the toss there, I wasn't there to judge or know but I know
the driver wouldn't simply have entered the last 3 characters
alone. I assume they first 2 characters were not pressed hard
enough and while juggling 2 children, a second thought wasn't
given to what was outputted onto the ticket.
Evidence below.
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648214255_3628baf35f_z.jpg
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648094304_a6a1884592_z.jpg
I hope I have provided all required information. (A picture of
the rear of the PCN is coming)
Many thanks
Drivers partner.
#Post#: 19711--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sutton Council - not displaying valid P&D ticket
(incorrect reg)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 14, 2024, 5:52 pm
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[member=1494]911bill[/member] please give us the PCN number and
the number plate, we need to look at the council evidence
because for all we know, there might be no case to answer. In
the meantime I'll get the parking places order.
#Post#: 19750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sutton Council - not displaying valid P&D ticket
(incorrect reg)
DIR By: 911bill
Date: April 15, 2024, 11:20 am
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Hello,
Here is the back of the charge notice.
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53655956231_dba292f255_c.jpg
I'm a bit reluctant to put the reg and PCN number up as this
would allow anyone to get into the ticket process to falsely
appeal it or other.
The evidence is literally a 360 degree range of pictures of the
vehicle within a parent child bay, in addition to the 2 pictures
posted up above.
Not sure if it is protocol to list all details here but just a
bit worried about someone maliciously cocking up the process for
me.
Thanks!
#Post#: 19918--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sutton Council - not displaying valid P&D ticket
(incorrect reg)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 18, 2024, 11:49 am
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--- Quote from: 911bill link ---
>
> Not sure if it is protocol to list all details here but just a
bit worried about someone maliciously cocking up the process for
me.
>
--- End Quote ---
[member=1494]911bill[/member] that can't really happen for
various reasons and indeed has never happened in the many years
that we've been helping people. I suppose the one thing anyone
could do is go onto the council website and pay the penalty for
you, which would preclude any appeal, but somehow I doubt anyone
will do that. However if you're that worried please PM me the
details instead.
In the meantime I've got hold of The Sutton (Off-Street Parking
Places) (No. 1) Order 2001
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t4ZyLjGMGQm9mNQMubw_3SeI_EMw6atM/view<br
/>and The Sutton (Off-Street Parking Places) (No. 1) (Amendment
No. 5) Order 2010
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EkeYmYoecJeCF9FPc8USjQbDAUJClXHC/view.
From a quick skim I can't see any requirement to insert the
vehicle registration into the ticket machine, nor is there any
requirement for the vehicle registration to be printed on the
ticket.
#Post#: 19968--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sutton Council - not displaying valid P&D ticket
(incorrect reg)
DIR By: 911bill
Date: April 19, 2024, 4:59 am
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Ok thanks for that. Wow, that would be case closed, great find.
Appreciate your efforts there, amazing.
The reg = C2 CFB
PCN = SU74186722
I haven't been back but a friend said that the only line on the
sign which would be related is "displaying a ticket with the
incorrect registration to that of the vehicle parked"..
Surely it must be seen that the reg is close enough and clearly
the first part is missing. ::)
#Post#: 20236--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sutton Council - not displaying valid P&D ticket
(incorrect reg)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 21, 2024, 5:45 pm
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So this is one of the stupidest PCNs I have seen in a while: out
of the 23 photos on the council website there are no photos of
any signs at all, so there is no evidence of a contravention. Of
course you must not alert the council to this flaw in their
evidence as you don't want to give them time to go back and get
some photos, this should only be brought up on the day of any
tribunal hearing.
In order to get the ball rolling I'd start by making a very
basic representation:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Sutton,
I challenge liability on the basis that the alleged
contravention did not occur, this is because I obtained a ticket
from the pay and display machine, this ticket was visible on my
dashboard and at the material time it had not expired.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Of course the council will reject, but let them spell out their
reasons and dig themselves into a hole. Send the representation
online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
#Post#: 20261--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sutton Council - not displaying valid P&D ticket
(incorrect reg)
DIR By: 911bill
Date: April 22, 2024, 5:32 am
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Thank you!
Good to know in regards to the picture and what is missing.
Appeal submitted via the website, screenshot of submission
confirmation saved. I also have an email acknowledgment, so now
we wait.
Thanks for your help here.
#Post#: 20361--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sutton Council - not displaying valid P&D ticket
(incorrect reg)
DIR By: 911bill
Date: April 23, 2024, 3:08 am
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Well that was easy..
Thank you for writing to us.
You were issued a penalty because your full registration number
was not entered
on your pay and display ticket.
We have made the decision to withdraw the penalty on this
occasion. However,
the onus is on the driver to ensure they enter the correct
information before
printing the ticket and leaving the vehicle unattended. Any
future penalties for this
reason may not be withdrawn.
Appreciate your help here, expected a fight back!
Thank you.
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