DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 19538--------------------------------------------------
Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J -
Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Close
DIR By: Snudge88
Date: April 12, 2024, 2:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I received a PCN from Royal Borough of Greenwich this morning,
regarding a bus lane infraction at the start of the month.
Video here:
HTML https://youtu.be/-bxrq_YZPQs
PCN Front:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/y0ndX2z.jpeg
PCN Rear:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/VIfRO3c.jpeg
Street View:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/vmwRmwWpbBir9wdW6
I get the feeling that it's open-and-shut. The driver informs me
that they veered into the bus lane to avoid an incredibly
snug-looking 6'6" width restriction (a 2017 XC60 is 1.891m in
width, so there's no argument that it shouldn't have been there)
as there was no viable alternative route.
Is there any get-out, or should I be telling the driver to stump
up with the fine?
This started life as a thread on PePiPoo with a couple of
responses - they can be read here:
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=153906
#Post#: 19550--------------------------------------------------
Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J
- Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Clos
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: April 12, 2024, 5:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
PM sent.
Dear Greenwich
I challenge this PCN.................as follows
1. The infraction is de minimis.
2. The white line is substantially broken in two places which
clearly demonstrates a failure to maintain the signage.
3. The actual 959 sign is questionable with an extra plate at
the bottom of it.
4. There is no evidence of an advanced warning signage in the
video (958).
5. I put you to strict proof that the camera is properly
approved.
Yours
Registered keeper
Address
*********************
All online and no need for you to attend at all. I would not
improvise upon what route you took and let them prove there is
sufficient warning signage in place.
#Post#: 19555--------------------------------------------------
Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J
- Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Clos
DIR By: Snudge88
Date: April 12, 2024, 6:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> PM sent.
>
>
> Dear Greenwich
>
> I challenge this PCN.................as follows
>
> 1. The infraction is de minimis.
> 2. The white line is substantially broken in two places which
clearly demonstrates a failure to maintain the signage.
> 3. The actual 959 sign is questionable with an extra plate at
the bottom of it.
> 4. There is no evidence of an advanced warning signage in the
video (958).
> 5. I put you to strict proof that the camera is properly
approved.
>
> Yours
>
> Registered keeper
> Address
>
> *********************
>
> All online and no need for you to attend at all. I would not
improvise upon what route you took and let them prove there is
sufficient warning signage in place.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks Hippocrates
Appeal lodged and, based on what I've read elsewhere, I shall
eagerly await my automatic rejection. I assume it's still the
case that RBG aren't routinely responding to or attending
Tribunal appeals?
#Post#: 19557--------------------------------------------------
Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J
- Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Clos
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: April 12, 2024, 7:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In the two cases we won last winter, they did not; however,
they now have a new Interim Parking Manager and they may turn
up. But, there are several avenues yet to be explored.
I have to say: that manoeuvre was brilliant! All wheels through
the gaps in the white line! I am not being sarcastic. I could
not have done it on my Yamaha XJ 650 Turbo!
#Post#: 19712--------------------------------------------------
Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J
- Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Clos
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 14, 2024, 6:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This is relevant:
HTML https://ico.org.uk/media/action-weve-taken/decision-notices/2024/4028421/ic-263068-c0w8.pdf
Further investigations are underway.
#Post#: 19739--------------------------------------------------
Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J
- Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Clos
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: April 15, 2024, 7:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This is the same council who stated in their two NORs in the
cases we won that they had a VCA certificate when they didn't -
not even the old one!
#Post#: 19832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J
- Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Clos
DIR By: Snudge88
Date: April 17, 2024, 8:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the advice so far, folks. The wholly-expected
dismissal of my appeal arrived this morning:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/OLPX4PM.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/3FuHooH.jpg
I've omitted Page 3 as it was merely payment information and
their sign-off.
Of particular amusement was their stance that their breach is de
minimis and is therefore of no consequence, yet my de minimis
breach is entirely relevant and enforceable(!).
Insofar as the certification of the camera is concerned (para 5,
page 2) I assume this is where the previous points regarding RBG
not keeping a record of the make/type of the camera are highly
relevant?
Any recommendations on next actions gratefully received.
#Post#: 19833--------------------------------------------------
Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J
- Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Clos
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: April 17, 2024, 8:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Wait for the Enforcement Notice and we can draft some stronger
representations. Please do not contact them at all at this
stage.
#Post#: 19834--------------------------------------------------
Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J
- Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Clos
DIR By: Snudge88
Date: April 17, 2024, 8:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Wait for the Enforcement Notice and we can draft some stronger
representations. Please do not contact them at all at this
stage.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks Hippocrates, will do.
#Post#: 20172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Bus Lane Infraction, Code 34J
- Being in a Bus Lane - Charlton Church Lane/Barney Clos
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 21, 2024, 11:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well this is getting more and more interesting, following the
ICO's Decision Notice I made a fresh information request on 12
February:
[indent]
There is a bus lane CCTV enforcement camera on Charlton Church
Lane at the junction with Barney Close.
I would like to request a copy of any evidence which confirms
that the camera at that location is a device covered by
certificate EADM058.
[/indent]
They sent me this on 11 March:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ewZX5hB.png
So I made a perfectly reasonable request for an internal review:
[indent]
I hereby request an internal review of the handling of this
information request.
You have sent me a copy of certificate EADM058, which I did not
request and had already.
My request was not for a copy of the certificate, my request was
for any information confirming certificate EADM058 applies to
the CCTV camera on Charlton Church Lane at the junction with
Barney Close. As this information is not stated on the face of
the certificate there must be information somewhere else to show
that this particular certificate applies to that particular
camera.
In the alternative if the council has no information to confirm
that certificate EADM058 applies to the CCTV camera on Charlton
Church Lane at the junction with Barney Close, please could you
confirm that no information is held in that regard.
[/indent]
I chased a response on 10 April and the answer was:
[indent]
Please accept our sincere apologies for a delay in providing a
response to your Internal Review request. We apologise for any
inconvenience this may cause. The service providing you with
your response has been chased today and they do remain committed
to responding to your request as soon as possible.
[/indent]
The obvious suspicion now is that they have no idea whether that
certificate covers the camera in question, at the tribunal they
just say it is but they don't know if it's true or not, they
just make it up.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 3
DIR Next Page