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#Post#: 19339--------------------------------------------------
PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space -
O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: LemonTootski
Date: April 8, 2024, 2:04 pm
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Greetings and Salutations,
I am very much disheartened to receive a penalty charge notice
for this alleged contravention. This is one of two £80 PCNs I
got on the same day from the same TFL region. So truly sad.
Having numerous problems with my car overheating which was
chugging along VERY slowly (maybe clutch is going?), I stopped
briefly to allow my car to cool down and to get my bearings (my
phone battery died, had no satnav, stopped to try and charge
it).
I genuinely thought I was in the box (didn't see the ending due
to not being clear / heavy lorries). Also did not see any signs.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/KmMzgdh/2.png
I'm not too sure regarding signage/regulations and i'm not sure
as too the enforceable nature of this PCN, nor any loopholes.
I'm just writing to see if there is any precedent to appeal
this. Perhaps some arcane ruling regarding the enforceability
for this regulation. From the very little info i've managed to
gleam, I've already made a start to challenge this. I called TFL
this morning on 0343 222 3333 and requested DVD footage for the
whole thing. TFL said this will take up to 15 days, and they
will put my PCN on hold for 14 days whilst this is being posted
to me. They gave me a reference number for this. So having
bought some time to prepare, i'm hoping some of you genteel,
learned, refined and knowledgeable individuals can help.
I've included my PCN and photos from the camera operator -
including one bizarre TFL camera photo of me taken just coming
in and out of the bus lane, which seems to show nothing to do
with the parking. These 3 are the only camera photos taken of
this 'contravention' that i pulled from the TFL website.
I've also included a Google street view photos (although old
street mapping, c. 2022) indicating where I stopped.
Any thoughts would be most welcome.
Thanks for your time reading into this.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/6DMGGRW/Recadted-1.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/RcCcJ1V/Redacted-2.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/qF5zCjM/Redacted-3.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/s6J2Wmx/22222.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/KmMzgdh/2.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/q1FfS6K/3.png
Google Street Maps
HTML https://i.ibb.co/gSNdSVr/oogle.png
#Post#: 19347--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
- O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 8, 2024, 4:01 pm
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The PCN is for parking in the bay because it is suspended. You
can see the yellow parking suspension sign in the photographs.
It is not for parking outside the bay as you seem to think.
Your GSV link is to 131, S Lambeth Road, but the PCN says
145-149. Here is the actual bay that matches the PCN address,
and looks like the one you stopped at : -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/CTxxfUs79RWzHKm19
and here is the sign for the bay, which on the day you stopped
had a suspension sign on it.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/45mWE7w1j2LMnUp27
You say you didn't see any sign, but did you get out of the car
to go and look for one ?
Wait for others to come on here, but as a Transport for London
PCN, experience on the forum is that these can be fought on
faults in their documents and processes, but you might have to
take them to London Tribunals to win.
#Post#: 19389--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
- O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: guest17
Date: April 9, 2024, 10:10 am
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I have already replied to the OP on Pepipoo as follows:-
Transport for London does not have approval for a suspension
sign therefore this PCN is unenforceable IMO.
Case reference 2180309331
Appellant Richard Mills
Authority Transport for London
VRM GC16AEY
PCN Details
PCN GF68259162
Contravention date 09 Apr 2018
Contravention time 15:46:00
Contravention location
Victoria Embankment
Contravention: Stopped where prohibited on red route or clearway
Decision Date 15 Sep 2018
Adjudicator Anthony Chan
Appeal decision
Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to
Owner.
Reasons
The Appellant attended in person.
The Appellant made several points one of which is that the
suspension sign is not authorised. There may be
an issue as to whether such a sign needs to be authorised but
the Authority's case is that the sign is
authorised. That being the case, the Authority must provide
evidence of the authorisation. It has not done so. I
allow the appeal.
OP I doubt you were in the parking bay anyway but on the DRLs,
ask for the video :-
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4778849,-0....i8192?entry=ttu
I would send the following reps:-
Name
Address
VRM
PCN Number
I challenge liability for PCN ??????? because the contravention
alleged did not occur. Penalty charges can only be imposed by
signs authorised under section 64(2) of the Road Traffic
Regulation Act 1984, this means either signs authorised by the
Traffic Signs Regulations 2016, or by signs specifically
authorised by the Secretary of State.
The Traffic Signs Regulations 2016 do not authorise any parking
suspension signs, and a search of the Department for Transport
website at
HTML https://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/
indicates that
Transport for London has not obtained a special authorisation
from the Secretary of State for the use of any parking
suspension signs.
In the absence of a lawful parking suspension sign, the
contravention alleged cannot have occurred.
Yours
--------------------
Mike
#Post#: 19432--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
- O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: April 10, 2024, 4:55 am
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Further to mikes point it is not a RR contravention so CCTV
cannot be used to enforce and even if it could the pictures are
not clear enough to say a contravention occurred
#Post#: 19681--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
- O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 14, 2024, 11:54 am
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[member=1458]LemonTootski[/member] this really simple:
[indent]
Dear Transport for London,
I challenge liability for this PCN because the alleged
contravention did not, and indeed could not occur. The
allegation on the notice is "Parked wholly or partly in a
suspended bay or space", this contravention only occurs if a
vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place or space
which has been suspended. As there are no designated parking
places on red routes, the contravention alleged did not occur.
Furthermore, Transport for London does not have any authorised
sign to convey that a parking place or space has been suspended,
no doubt because Transport for London does not provide any
designated parking places or spaces, and no such sign is
authorised by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016.
Lastly the PCN does not comply with the requirements imposed by
the second part of paragraph 3(1)(a) of Schedule 2 to The Civil
Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices,
Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England)
Regulations 2022, and that is a procedural impropriety.
It follows that the penalty charge notice must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
As with the other case, make sure to keep a screenshot of the
confirmation page.
#Post#: 19714--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
- O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: LemonTootski
Date: April 14, 2024, 7:23 pm
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Actually, the issue with Mike's point not a RR contravention so
CCTV
#Post#: 19715--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
- O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: LemonTootski
Date: April 14, 2024, 7:24 pm
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Oh, ignore that. i've spotted the discrepancy. thanks.
#Post#: 19716--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
- O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: LemonTootski
Date: April 14, 2024, 7:28 pm
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Well thanks, cp8759. I admire your confidence and the way you
state: "This is really simple". But now I read it, it actually
is very clear and black and white.
This site really does help others to educate themselves in
challenging erroneous PCNs. Knowing little things like
...keeping the postage envelope it arrived in can make all the
difference!
I'll give your wording a go, and put in my challenge to the PCN
now.
And thanks MMVRedvux (Mike), Incandescent and other contributors
in this thread.
I think this is a very well presented thread - succinct (one
page long), easy and clear to read, and to the point.
It's my hope that this post will really help others who find
themselves in similar situations with this PCN.
WILL KEEP YOU POSTED...
#Post#: 19720--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
- O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 15, 2024, 3:22 am
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[member=1458]LemonTootski[/member] please bear in mind TFL will
undoubtedly reject, don't let that discourage you, the
representations are just there to set us up for the tribunal.
#Post#: 19748--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
- O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8
DIR By: LemonTootski
Date: April 15, 2024, 9:50 am
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Done...
They will probably reject the rep, but heyho. this old girl's
still got a little fight in her yet :)
Tbc ...
HTML https://i.ibb.co/NjxxyNc/Submitted-2.png
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