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#Post#: 18806--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 1, 2024, 11:05 am
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What you say makes a lot of sense and the other consideration is
that if the council are confronted with the argument and simply
prove obtuse, you might be able to get a costs order against
them.
Send the modified draft and let's see what comes back. Don't
forget to screenshot the confirmation page.
#Post#: 18822--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: ticketed_off
Date: April 1, 2024, 2:16 pm
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Glad you see my logic - I'll send later tonight or tomorrow.
I've just revisited the site in passing and although light was
too dim to get a photograph (and not sure if that is relevant)
absolutely no bay markings were visible, at all (far
deteriorated from GSV). At most the odd fleck of white.
I'll update when I hear anything back. Thanks so much again.
Representations submitted - response due by 27 May 2024.
#Post#: 21130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 30, 2024, 12:09 pm
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It gets better:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/9ieewyZ.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/hN50pVA.png
#Post#: 21140--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 30, 2024, 3:13 pm
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You couldn't make it up, really !
Actually, knowing how bovinely stupid councils are, you can !!!
#Post#: 21376--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: ticketed_off
Date: May 2, 2024, 5:49 pm
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Thanks gents, so to be clear, there is presumably no legal basis
by which vehicles can be issued with a PCN or removed from this
road purely for being in contravention of the purported
control?? Is there any alternative legal mechanism they could
claim to be exercising this power under?
#Post#: 21473--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 3, 2024, 3:00 pm
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--- Quote from: ticketed_off link ---
>
> Thanks gents, so to be clear, there is presumably no legal
basis by which vehicles can be issued with a PCN or removed from
this road purely for being in contravention of the purported
control?? Is there any alternative legal mechanism they could
claim to be exercising this power under?
>
--- End Quote ---
If the traffic order doesn't exist then it doesn't exist. In the
past where councils have rejected representations despite the
lack of a traffic order being raised in the formal
representations, the tribunal has held this to be wholly
unreasonable and has made a costs order against the council.
#Post#: 21835--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: ticketed_off
Date: May 8, 2024, 8:53 am
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From some research (thanks CP for info on how to search the
Gazette) it seems they at least gave notice that they had made
an order on 15 May 2017 -
HTML https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2785273
that would seem to
cover the area in question, but I am unable to find the full
text of the order anywhere online. Still no reply to my reps.
#Post#: 22492--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 14, 2024, 6:35 pm
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I'll get hold of the orders mentioned in that gazette
announcement.
#Post#: 24003--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: ticketed_off
Date: May 27, 2024, 8:54 am
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Today is, by my count, the 56th day since I submitted these
informal reps. I have not yet received anything except the
confirmation e-mail (which promised a response within 56 days),
or anything in the post. The confirmation email stated the below
which implied a 56 day turnaround even in the case of informal
reps:
--- Quote ---
> Thank you for your representation, which has been allocated to
the above Penalty Charge Notice. The case is now on hold until a
response is sent to you either by email (if an email address has
been provided) or by post.
>
> Where a PCN is issued under the Traffic Management Act (TMA)
2004, the council will respond to your challenge within 56 days
of the date it was received.
>
> If you challenge your penalty charge notice within 14 days
from the date of service of the notice, known as an informal
challenge, where the notice was placed on the vehicle or handed
to the driver. Then it will then be held at the reduced rate and
a further 14 days will be given, from the date of our
correspondence, to pay at the reduced rate if your challenge is
not accepted.
>
> Any PCNs issued by a camera, such as bus lanes, no entry
restrictions, motor vehicle restriction zones, pedestrian zones
in pursuant to the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 (as
amended), London Local Authorities 1996 and Transport for London
Act 2003 will be responded to as soon as possible. There is no
corresponding provision within the Acts relating to bus lane and
moving traffic contraventions which require that an Enforcement
Authority must respond within a statutory time limit.
--- End Quote ---
As today is a Public Holiday I am not expecting to receive
anything (although not entirely ruling it out).
I am trying to decide whether they have just decided to accept
the reps and not engage with me any further, or whether I should
expect to hear something out of time (as I understand the 56
days isnt a hard limit?). Would it be possible they have done
the former or would they always send a letter of rejection, even
to informal reps?
Edit: I have reviewed the PCN online and it shows the below
under 'View PCN':
HTML https://i.imgur.com/46QxQtU.png
#Post#: 24055--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
Albert Road North Woolwich
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 27, 2024, 11:40 am
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The 56 days is a limit for a council to respond to formal reps
against a postal PCN, or a Notice to Owner, both issued under
the Traffic Management Act 2004. A postal PCN is essentially
also an NtO, because it is sent to the name and address on the
V5 for the vehicle.
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