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       #Post#: 18806--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: April 1, 2024, 11:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       What you say makes a lot of sense and the other consideration is
       that if the council are confronted with the argument and simply
       prove obtuse, you might be able to get a costs order against
       them.
       Send the modified draft and let's see what comes back. Don't
       forget to screenshot the confirmation page.
       #Post#: 18822--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: ticketed_off
       Date: April 1, 2024, 2:16 pm
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       Glad you see my logic - I'll send later tonight or tomorrow.
       I've just revisited the site in passing and although light was
       too dim to get a photograph (and not sure if that is relevant)
       absolutely no bay markings were visible, at all (far
       deteriorated from GSV). At most the odd fleck of white.
       I'll update when I hear anything back. Thanks so much again.
       Representations submitted - response due by 27 May 2024.
       #Post#: 21130--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: April 30, 2024, 12:09 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It gets better:
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/9ieewyZ.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/hN50pVA.png
       #Post#: 21140--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: April 30, 2024, 3:13 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You couldn't make it up, really !
       Actually, knowing how bovinely stupid councils are, you can !!!
       #Post#: 21376--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: ticketed_off
       Date: May 2, 2024, 5:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks gents, so to be clear, there is presumably no legal basis
       by which vehicles can be issued with a PCN or removed from this
       road purely for being in contravention of the purported
       control?? Is there any alternative legal mechanism they could
       claim to be exercising this power under?
       #Post#: 21473--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: May 3, 2024, 3:00 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ticketed_off link ---
       >
       > Thanks gents, so to be clear, there is presumably no legal
       basis by which vehicles can be issued with a PCN or removed from
       this road purely for being in contravention of the purported
       control?? Is there any alternative legal mechanism they could
       claim to be exercising this power under?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       If the traffic order doesn't exist then it doesn't exist. In the
       past where councils have rejected representations despite the
       lack of a traffic order being raised in the formal
       representations, the tribunal has held this to be wholly
       unreasonable and has made a costs order against the council.
       #Post#: 21835--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: ticketed_off
       Date: May 8, 2024, 8:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       From some research (thanks CP for info on how to search the
       Gazette) it seems they at least gave notice that they had made
       an order on 15 May 2017 -
  HTML https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2785273
       that would seem to
       cover the area in question, but I am unable to find the full
       text of the order anywhere online. Still no reply to my reps.
       #Post#: 22492--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: May 14, 2024, 6:35 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'll get hold of the orders mentioned in that gazette
       announcement.
       #Post#: 24003--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: ticketed_off
       Date: May 27, 2024, 8:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Today is, by my count, the 56th day since I submitted these
       informal reps. I have not yet received anything except the
       confirmation e-mail (which promised a response within 56 days),
       or anything in the post. The confirmation email stated the below
       which implied a 56 day turnaround even in the case of informal
       reps:
       --- Quote ---
       > Thank you for your representation, which has been allocated to
       the above Penalty Charge Notice. The case is now on hold until a
       response is sent to you either by email (if an email address has
       been provided) or by post.
       >
       > Where a PCN is issued under the Traffic Management Act (TMA)
       2004, the council will respond to your challenge within 56 days
       of the date it was received.
       >
       > If you challenge your penalty charge notice within 14 days
       from the date of service of the notice, known as an informal
       challenge, where the notice was placed on the vehicle or handed
       to the driver. Then it will then be held at the reduced rate and
       a further 14 days will be given, from the date of our
       correspondence, to pay at the reduced rate if your challenge is
       not accepted.
       >
       > Any PCNs issued by a camera, such as bus lanes, no entry
       restrictions, motor vehicle restriction zones, pedestrian zones
       in pursuant to the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 (as
       amended), London Local Authorities 1996 and Transport for London
       Act 2003 will be responded to as soon as possible. There is no
       corresponding provision within the Acts relating to bus lane and
       moving traffic contraventions which require that an Enforcement
       Authority must respond within a statutory time limit.
       --- End Quote ---
       As today is a Public Holiday I am not expecting to receive
       anything (although not entirely ruling it out).
       I am trying to decide whether they have just decided to accept
       the reps and not engage with me any further, or whether I should
       expect to hear something out of time (as I understand the 56
       days isnt a hard limit?). Would it be possible they have done
       the former or would they always send a letter of rejection, even
       to informal reps?
       Edit: I have reviewed the PCN online and it shows the below
       under 'View PCN':
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/46QxQtU.png
       #Post#: 24055--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit,
       Albert Road North Woolwich
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: May 27, 2024, 11:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The 56 days is a limit for a council to respond to formal reps
       against a postal PCN, or a Notice to Owner, both issued under
       the Traffic Management Act 2004. A postal PCN is essentially
       also an NtO, because it is sent to the name and address on the
       V5 for the vehicle.
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