DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 18570--------------------------------------------------
52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition on
Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: RS123
Date: March 30, 2024, 10:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi All
I need to make reps on this by the end of play on Tuesday 2nd
April. I had another PCN (on this same road but at the other end
of the road) so was working on that appeal hence leaving this
one a bit later than planned!
Below are details of the PCN:
PCN
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qlcpkeY4CVxiqDOIg0hrrVGuuN9XF8-E/view?usp=sharing
Council Image 1
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GgzWmulSg_zqPgPIaofhe0VHORcUGA3W/view?usp=drive_link
Council Image 2
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jxZCxLFKBF4vMN1HF5XAoNXU7fRsibh-/view?usp=drive_link
Council Video Footage
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cluMa9J4ID0r6Lnl9wnYN5UHFcyoq8lg/view?usp=drive_link
I turned onto Holmesdale Road from Oliver Grove and drove down
quite a significant stretch of Holmesdale Road. Near the end of
this road, not far from the junction, there are regulatory signs
for the prohibited vehicles which I didn't see at the time
(appreciate this is my fault) and so I was issued a PCN.
However, my question would be, I have crossed this alleged
threshold but am essentially approaching the junction (of
Holmesdale Road and Park Road) so where exactly is the Healthy
Neighbourhood Zone that I have breached by entering? Across Park
Road, the next section of Holmesdale Road is blocked off so
essentially is the 'zone' a tiny red box at the junction of
Holmesdale Road continuing across Park Road and then stopping at
the physical barrier across the junction at the next part of
Holmesdale Road?
I have annotated my route on this map
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_hr9TfE_MRbZJD2xRbmC_uAPXOiVx8yI/view?usp=drive_link<br
/>with a purple line and marked a red rectangle to show what
appears to be the Healthy Neighbourhood Zone.
Can anyone see flaws and/or grounds upon which I could appeal?
Thanks in advance
#Post#: 18721--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition
on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: March 31, 2024, 6:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1393]RS123[/member] I can't see any obvious issues, I
have found the map tile at
HTML https://store.traffweb.app/croydon/documents/parkmap/msched/N14_rv2_2.pdf<br
/>and the signs seem to be located where they should be.
This is the sort of case where I'd suggest the strategy of last
resort described here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/l-b-waltham-forest-50r-performing-a-prohibited-turn/msg7581/#msg7581.
Do you have any mitigation we could use?
#Post#: 18798--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition
on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: RS123
Date: April 1, 2024, 10:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=1393]RS123[/member] I can't see any obvious issues, I
have found the map tile at
HTML https://store.traffweb.app/croydon/documents/parkmap/msched/N14_rv2_2.pdf<br
/>and the signs seem to be located where they should be.
>
> This is the sort of case where I'd suggest the strategy of
last resort described here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/l-b-waltham-forest-50r-performing-a-prohibited-turn/msg7581/#msg7581.
>
> Do you have any mitigation we could use?
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you [member=1]cp8759[/member]. In terms of mitigation, I
am currently going through a divorce (with children involved).
The 'Conditional Order' was going in front of a judge on 15th
March and this alleged contravention happened on 13th March; I
don't know if that would be considered mitigating...
At the same time, I would like to make some reps on the basis
of:
1) Inadequate signage
- A single warning sign has been placed on the left hand side of
the road only (as opposed to on both sides of the road), next to
a cycle storage unit and there are a number of parked vehicles
so, with all of this to consider, the sign could easily be
missed.
- The regulatory signs themselves on the approach to the
junction of Holmesdale and Park Road are confusing. Given that
one is approaching a junction, one would not expect to be
entering a restricted zone. In addition, as bollards are visible
across the junction, one might think that the restricted zone
being referred to is the section (continuation) of Holmesdale
Road located across the junction, rather than the small section
of Holmesdale Road leading up to the junction.
2) Purpose of the signage is redundant
Which 'zone' are the regulatory signs meant to be demarcating?
Essentially the council has put up an isolated a regulatory sign
to create a line in the road near the junction with another busy
road, thereby generating revenue on the basis of creating a
'healthy neighbourhood' the extent of which is a section of road
a few metres long and wide.
I would argue that there is no protected zone since the signs
are almost at the junction of Holmesdale Road and Park Road, and
therefore the traffic management reasons for the signage are
defunct. There is an isolated sign near the top of Holmesdale
Road, which has no overall purpose certainly not the one
dictated by the Traffic Order.
3) The PCN is defective
The Contravention Code is required to have a suffix indicating
which vehicles are prohibited. Since it does not, a procedural
error is apparent and the PCN is null and void.
Any advice on what I am thinking of putting forward tomorrow
would be appreciated.
#Post#: 18802--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition
on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: RS123
Date: April 1, 2024, 10:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=17]Mmvredux[/member]
[member=156]Pastmybest[/member]
[member=24]Hippocrates[/member]
[member=13]Neil B[/member]
[member=12]Incandescent[/member]
[member=832]taffer87[/member]
[member=414]H C Andersen [/member]
You all advised in relation to my previous PCN on the same road.
If you are able to advise on the above as I need to make reps
tomorrow I'd be most grateful.
#Post#: 18804--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition
on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 1, 2024, 11:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Do you have any supporting paperwork regarding your conditional
offer going before the judge?
#Post#: 18807--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition
on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: RS123
Date: April 1, 2024, 11:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Do you have any supporting paperwork regarding your
conditional offer going before the judge?
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi
I have an email from HMCTS Divorce and Dissolution that states
that this will be taking place and another that says it has
since taken place.
Could I do both as in put make reps and go for mitigation (or
are the two mutually exclusive)?
#Post#: 18811--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition
on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 1, 2024, 11:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You can do both, but I'd suggest putting them in a file share
and then setting up a link with a click counter, so you can
determine whether the council has actually looked at them. Do
you know how to do that, or would you like me to set the links
up for you?
#Post#: 18817--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition
on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: RS123
Date: April 1, 2024, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> You can do both, but I'd suggest putting them in a file share
and then setting up a link with a click counter, so you can
determine whether the council has actually looked at them. Do
you know how to do that, or would you like me to set the links
up for you?
>
--- End Quote ---
A file share as in something like a folder in Google Drive
containing two files: the appeal in one and evidence of the
conditional order in the other?
I have no idea how to set up the links so would appreciate your
help.
Thank you
#Post#: 18823--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition
on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 1, 2024, 2:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'd only put the supporting evidence in a file share, rather
than the text of the representation itself. I'll drop you a PM.
#Post#: 18826--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52J - Upper Grove Junction of Holmesdale Road, Prohibition
on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: April 1, 2024, 2:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This?:
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=153778&pid=1812293&mode=threaded&start=#entry1812293
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page