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#Post#: 18176--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: March 24, 2024, 4:10 am
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Some people are happy to go to the council site to look at the
video, I do not do that it needs be posted on here and without
it it is impossible to say if there are any arguments re
challenging. Similarly without all the PCN we cannot check for
flaws
#Post#: 18177--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: RS123
Date: March 24, 2024, 6:34 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> Am I correct that the 'No Through Road except cycles' signs
don't necessarily indicate a prohibition;
>
> They're warning signs not regulatory signs, just as the flying
motorcycle on blue background is a warning.
>
> The regulatory sign in your case is not in view, but its other
half is. The council will have library evidence to the effect
that you passed a regulatory 'flying motorbike' so IMO don't
risk £65 on such a flimsy argument.
>
--- End Quote ---
@hcandersen Thank you for clarifying and for your advice.
#Post#: 18178--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: RS123
Date: March 24, 2024, 6:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> OK, you missed the advance warning sign, but you actually
drove past the restrictions signs. They would have been facing
you on your approach. It's difficult to give more advice
without a view of the signs you approach; GSV is not
sufficiently up-to-date to show them.
>
--- End Quote ---
[member=12]Incandescent[/member] Sorry I now have a photo of the
signage. I have posted a photo of the signage along with all
other photos in a separate post further down in this thread.
#Post#: 18179--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: RS123
Date: March 24, 2024, 6:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> Some people are happy to go to the council site to look at the
video, I do not do that it needs be posted on here and without
it it is impossible to say if there are any arguments re
challenging. Similarly without all the PCN we cannot check for
flaws
>
--- End Quote ---
[member=156]Pastmybest[/member] Sorry wasn't trying to be
difficult. My mum is the registered keeper so all the paperwork
is with her. It was hard enough trying to get a photo of the
cover page of the PCN, let alone info about where the video is
located! Anyhow I have now figured it out so will post all info
about the PCN in a separate post.
#Post#: 18180--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: RS123
Date: March 24, 2024, 6:59 am
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Links to photos and videos below:
PCN Cover Page
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hbaTy9Lk5SD2H8RRgJ0m23UE9vAQAVtx/view?usp=drive_link
Council Photo 1
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EZAtnIamnlr1Bd-ya9aGJsSWGsyYqEtb/view?usp=drive_link
Council Photo 2
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ka3atSnyVArUfT6SxwnEMB-TTAwRCJTC/view?usp=drive_link
Council Video Footage
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-nxnnD7T3Yb7WgvZFJ4eOduhxyE8OmS3/view?usp=drive_link
Signage
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/14bUUm2O-CawfqUiEMDDpIpinJz3dU_gV/view?usp=drive_link
Warning Signage at Entrance to Road
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u3XmhQcCxAdYN7b6xXhK_aLT_sYpCoeG/view?usp=drive_link
Hopefully this is everything that is needed to see if there are
any flaws. If anyone can spot any grounds for reps, please
advise.
My Own POV (not that it will count for much in this appeals
process):
I appreciate that I approached the regulatory signs and
continued driving therefore my fault.
However, my query is: aren't prohibited zones typically a whole
road or at least a significant section of road, as opposed to a
small red box (dimensions: approx 1m x width of road) which you
can approach from both ends of the road but cannot cross/enter?
Given that the regulatory prohibition signs are roughly 60% of
the way down this stretch of road, one is not expecting to drive
down here and suddenly reach a threshold (red box) that one is
not permitted to cross. Would drivers who were unfamiliar with
the CHN but saw the signs be expected to respond by stopping and
performing a 3 point turn in the middle of the road (even more
so during busy times)?
#Post#: 18183--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 24, 2024, 7:42 am
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Yes, it's totally barmy, but that doesn't get the PCN cancelled,
unfortunately. The council won't give way, so you either
pay-up, or take them to London Tribunals where it would be a
gamble. Councils are making millions on the back of LTNs, and
until the Government take the punch bowl away, will continue
doing so.
#Post#: 18184--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: March 24, 2024, 7:52 am
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HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hbaTy9Lk5SD2H8RRgJ0m23UE9vAQAVtx/view?usp=sharing
The PCN does not specify which vehicles. Loads of cases allowed
on this point re lack of particularisation. It should say: motor
vehicles after the certain vehicles.
To my eye, the image of/on the sign does not rectify this fault.
#Post#: 18198--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: March 24, 2024, 12:29 pm
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I cannot agree with Hippo the sign is a regulatory one and means
no motor vehicles there is then an except buses plate so what is
allowed or not is clear. But the council only evidence a sign
facing away from you and that can't count. They may have
pictures facing the right way but make them prove it
#Post#: 18210--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: Neil B
Date: March 24, 2024, 3:31 pm
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The Gazette notice of what appears to be the relevant Order.
HTML https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4166090
Maybe I'm dumb (probably) but I can't see Oliver Road mentioned?
It's worth asking for the full traffic order at some point.
I suspect your other PCN was for Upper Grove? -- which IS
mentioned.
#Post#: 18211--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Croydon, Holmesdale Road - 52J Failing to comply with a
Prohibition on Certain Types of Vehicle
DIR By: Neil B
Date: March 24, 2024, 3:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> I cannot agree with Hippo the sign is a regulatory one and
means no motor vehicles there is then an except buses plate so
what is allowed or not is clear.
--- End Quote ---
And >
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Loads of cases allowed
--- End Quote ---
Is disingenuous as far more cases were refused when the point
was raised loads of times for another Croydon location.
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