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#Post#: 850--------------------------------------------------
Jamestown Road NW1 Mistake
DIR By: Shaysaf
Date: July 4, 2023, 10:40 am
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Received PCN from Camden Council
I have realised that I have simply made a mistake , was new to
the area and did not see the sign in all honesty.
This is the post I made on other forum and was advised to
discuss is further here .
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150183
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150183
In addition to this my appeal which stated that there was lack
of signs has been rejected and I have attached the response I
have received from the council
The link below shows the pdf file with the response from the
council
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aTdNPpc2hbZq-yzyET4nzIxZAXfUc2Wr/view?usp=sharing
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aTdNPpc2hbZq-yzyET4nzIxZAXfUc2Wr/view?usp=sharing
Any advice / help would sincerely be appreciated .
#Post#: 867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jamestown Road NW1 Mistake
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 4, 2023, 3:22 pm
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The traffic order is The Camden (Arlington Road Low Traffic
Neighbourhood) Traffic Order 2022
HTML https://bit.ly/3JKOhST
and Article 3.8 appears to be the
relevant one.
Can you please show us your representations, rather than just
giving us a summary?
Also did you actually miss the sign, or did you not know what it
means?
#Post#: 871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jamestown Road NW1 Mistake
DIR By: Shaysaf
Date: July 4, 2023, 3:39 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> The traffic order is The Camden (Arlington Road Low Traffic
Neighbourhood) Traffic Order 2022
HTML https://bit.ly/3JKOhST
and Article 3.8 appears to be the
relevant one.
>
> Can you please show us your representations, rather than just
giving us a summary?
>
> Also did you actually miss the sign, or did you not know what
it means?
>
--- End Quote ---
I genuinely missed the sign at the time of the night . Further
more to this I said with detail that it was a mistake and I
believe there are meant to be two signs . Unfortunately I do not
have exact representation with me.
Is there any chance to appeal this or shall I proceed with
discounted fine ?
#Post#: 872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jamestown Road NW1 Mistake
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 4, 2023, 3:45 pm
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There is always a chance at adjudication, the council might mess
up the evidence pack, or we might persuade the adjudicator that
the sign should be illuminated, so if you want to carry on I'm
happy to assist.
But you have to understand that it would be a gamble, and if you
carry on and lose you will have to pay the full penalty of £130.
We can't really tell you what to do, at the end of the day it's
your decision whether to risk the full amount or cut your losses
here.
That being said, if you want to know what your chances are, I
think they're less than 50%.
#Post#: 873--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jamestown Road NW1 Mistake
DIR By: Shaysaf
Date: July 4, 2023, 3:48 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> There is always a chance at adjudication, the council might
mess up the evidence pack, or we might persuade the adjudicator
that the sign should be illuminated, so if you want to carry on
I'm happy to assist.
>
> But you have to understand that it would be a gamble, and if
you carry on and lose you will have to pay the full penalty of
£130. We can't really tell you what to do, at the end of the day
it's your decision whether to risk the full amount or cut your
losses here.
>
> That being said, if you want to know what your chances are, I
think they're less than 50%.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you very much for your insights and help. I guess I will
cut my losses and proceed with discounted for this one .
#Post#: 896--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jamestown Road NW1 Mistake
DIR By: guest17
Date: July 5, 2023, 11:15 am
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Pity.
I would have looked more closely at the Order which describes
the location:-
both sides: from a point 7.5 metres south-west of the
north-eastern wall of no. 265 Camden High Street to a point
47.24 metres south-west of the south-western kerb line of Camden
High Street
But it then indicates a Code 19 for the prescribed hours.
Getting to the prescribed hours is a little more difficult
although that table indicates:-
TABLE 5.2 – ITEMS INCLUDED, OR SUBSTITUTED FOR ITEMS SET OUT IN
RELATION TO SIMILARLY NAMED STREETS, IN SCHEDULE 2 TO THE CAMDEN
(WAITING AND LOADING RESTRICTIONS) (CIVIL ENFORCEMENT AREA)
TRAFFIC ORDER 2012
HTML https://www.camden.gov.uk/waiting-and-loading-tmo
If we go to that Order Schedule 2 relates to loading bans in
that street but again gives a code 19 for prescribed hours to be
found in Schedule 3.
In Schedule 3 (Table of Restricted Hours)it suggests a Code 19
restricts hours Monday to Friday to 8.30am – 9.30am; 5pm –
6.30pm .
Clear as mud but since the OP's timed contravention was at 03.31
it would have been worth a shot at an incorrect contravention.
Usually a 616 sign is 24/7 but I believe Camden have cocked it
up by including the restriction in a Traffic Order and giving it
prescribed hours.
Mike
#Post#: 903--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jamestown Road NW1 Mistake
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 5, 2023, 1:24 pm
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The OP has a Notice of Rejection so he can still appeal up to 20
July.
However as far as I can see, the reference you have found is in
table 5.2, which is given effect by Article 5 of the Order,
which is concerned with "Designation of waiting restrictions".
As I understand it, it's common for these sorts of orders to
amend waiting restrictions, parking places and so on to ensure
that where vehicles have to turn around, they are able to do so
without being obstructed by parked cars.
The actual moving traffic restriction is created by article 3.8:
[indent]
No person shall cause any vehicle proceeding in an easterly
direction in Jamestown Road, to proceed past the projected
north-eastern kerb line of Arlington Road, except for a pedal
cycle travelling in the lane provided for such purpose on the
north-western side of the carriageway.
[/indent]
I'll be delighted if someone can show that I'm wrong.
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