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#Post#: 19010--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 4, 2024, 7:10 am
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Have not looked through these yet, but for when the NTO comes
here are:
The County of Herefordshire District Council (Various Roads,
Ross-on-Wye) (Prohibition of Waiting) (Restricted Waiting) (Taxi
Rank Stands) (Residents Parking) (Parking Zones RA, RB, RC and
RD) Order 2005
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qy6ds6mf8X-0jXDfjl6QVLG_Y7-njcPi/view
The County of Herefordshire District Council (Broad Street Road
and Station Street, Ross-on-Wye) (Taxi Rank & Prohibition and
Restriction of Waiting) Order 2009
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WkctPcDzi0tVTQlf6toY1xWxFoiKENZt/view
The Herefordshire Council (Various Roads, Ross on Wye)
(Prohibition of Waiting) (Restricted Waiting) (Taxi Rank Stands)
(Residents Parking) (Parking Zones RA, RB, RC and RD) Order 2005
(Amendment No.1) Order 2019
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fVCfiV_JymZEvPfm_HPSOv76r2XIQnP5/view
The Herefordshire Council (Various Roads, Ross on Wye)
(Prohibition of Waiting) (Restricted Waiting) (Taxi Rank Stands)
(Residents Parking) (Parking Zones RA, RB, RC and RD) Order 2005
(Amendment No.2) Order 2019
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pPi3yR6Y9lIkESVIkWJIqg78MAEw2TaS/view
#Post#: 19011--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Turbulent-Pack-447
Date: April 4, 2024, 7:13 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Have not looked through these yet, but for when the NTO comes
here are:
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry I didn't reply to your previous one - thank you so much
for this I'll investigate 🙏
#Post#: 19719--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Turbulent-Pack-447
Date: April 15, 2024, 2:32 am
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--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> Stop worrying i will deal with this for you just post the NTO
when you get it
>
--- End Quote ---
The NTO just arrived. I sincerely appreciate everyone's help and
input so far I'm still worrying myself sick about all of this.
(edit: there are two extra pages, photos of the car as parked -
same ones from the reply to the informal appeal I posted - and
photos the CEO took of the front and back of the blue badge)
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 20142--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 21, 2024, 7:52 am
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[member=1377]Turbulent-Pack-447[/member] as you will notice,
this is the sort of case that makes my blood boil and is the
whole raison d'etre of this website: it is an outrageous example
of a deranged council, if you could only use a blue badge if the
badge holder is present for both parts of the journey then blue
badges would be useless for any disabled persons who cannot
drive themselves, as it would be impossible for them to be
picked up or dropped off by someone else.
This is the strongest representation I have probably ever
drafted, but it is really warranted as there is no way somebody
like you should be bullied into fear and submission by a local
authority officer who should be redeployed to litter picking
duties, or maybe to clean the public toilets. I am obviously
offering to represent you at the tribunal should it come to
that.
[indent]
Dear Herefordshire Council,
Having taken legal advice, I challenge PCN HE53223388 on the
ground that the alleged contravention did not occur.
The starting point is that the blue badge was correctly
displayed as you admit in the informal rejection letter of 15
March 2024.
On the day of the alleged contravention, my wife had called me
and said our autistic child was having an extremely tough
morning and that she thought it was best to take him out of
school and drop him off with me so I could take him to a sensory
play session, and then take him back to school hopefully much
calmer.
I parked my car in a disabled bay, displayed the blue badge and
clock, and walked immediately over to a spot in front of a shop
to await their arrival. I got a call from the badge issuing
office saying I was seen leaving the car without the badge
holder and to go and speak to the Civil Enforcement Officer by
the car. I went and explained that I was there to collect the
badge holder and that they were on their way.
The Officer said that this is not acceptable as the holder has
to be present for both parts of the journey, I now know that
this is wrong but not having legal advice to hand at the
roadside, I was unable to challenge his assertion (not that it
would have made any difference anyway and he clearly hasn't been
trained correctly, which is your fault).
I was (incorrectly) mortified and explained that I thought I
could use the badge for picking up and dropping off (which I now
know to be correct). I called my wife, but she didn't answer so
the warden issued me a ticket. He did not confiscate the badge.
The officer said to come and find him if I could get hold of
her. She eventually called back and explained that she had been
quickly cleaning faeces from the bathroom wall that she had just
discovered and was now collecting him to bring to me. I found
the officer, who spoke to her and made a note of this.
He said I could stay in the space because I had been issued a
ticket and couldn't be issued another one and, quite distressed,
I said I would prefer to just move my car if I was using the
badge incorrectly as he had stated (because I could not know at
the time that the CEO was spouting nonsense because you, as his
supervisors, are ignorant as to the law and have not trained him
properly) and I didn't want to take up a space for somebody
else. I spoke to my wife and we decided to collect him later and
take him along to the later session instead as I was so
distressed.
Looking back at your letter of 15 March 2024 with the benefit of
legal advice it is now self-evident that that letter has been
written by someone who is entirely ignorant of the relevant law
and should be sent on a retraining course. I fear this might be
the case of everyone working in your office because no blue
badge holder should be worrying himself sick over an incorrectly
issued penalty charge notice that has been caused entirely by a
local authority whose officers do not know what they are doing.
The blue badge book issued by the Department for Transport
clearly states that:
"The badge is for your use and benefit only. It must only be
displayed if you are travelling in the vehicle as a driver or
passenger, or if someone is collecting you or dropping you off
and needs to park at the place where you are being collected or
dropped."
Civil parking enforcement is meant to protect people who are
legitimately using a blue badge for its intended purpose (as I
was doing on the day in question), and you are doing the exact
opposite of that, it is apparent that the people in your office
are utterly ignorant of this guidance so you should actually
take the time and effort to read it, you can find a copy here:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england
Furthermore, a blue badge is either on display or it isn't, if a
valid blue badge is on display then a code 40 contravention
cannot possibly occur. If you are satisfied that the blue badge
was being used fraudulently, then you should have the courage of
your convictions and you should prosecute me for fraud under the
Fraud Act 2006 (good luck with that).
I have retained the services of Mr Ivan Murray-Smith (please do
Google him if you don't know who he is) and he will be
representing me at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal should you be
foolish enough to issue a notice of rejection, and I should
forewarn you now that should you issue a notice of rejection
that notice will be challenged as being wholly unreasonable and
I will be pursuing a costs order against you, even if you
decide not to contest the appeal.
On the other hand, it might be that a trip to the tribunal is
needed in order to give you a bit of an education.
I look forward to your prompt response.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
We really should take the council to the cleaners for this. Even
if they cancel the PCN, we should pursue a formal complaint and
require that all officers involved be retrained.
Send the representations online and keep a screenshot of the
confirmation page. If for some reason the representation won't
fit because of a character limit, put it in a PDF document and
upload it as an attachment and in the text box write "see
attached representation".
If you need any reassurance, you can Google me as well :)
#Post#: 20216--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Turbulent-Pack-447
Date: April 21, 2024, 4:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=1377]Turbulent-Pack-447[/member] as you will notice,
this is the sort of case that makes my blood boil and is the
whole raison d'etre of this website
--- End Quote ---
I am absolutely blown away by what you have done for me, I could
actually cry. This is an amazing letter. I have never seen such
kindness and your offer of further representation is deeply
appreciated. You have quite the impressive resume in this area!!
Since the moment I was accosted I have felt so alienated and
alone. The lady on the phone sounded angry. The CEO was
confrontational and kept telling me "This is important. This is
important." when my nerves were already shot to shreds waiting
for my family and wondering what kind of state everyone would be
in. He even waved me into the space and I thanked him, it didn't
occur to me that I was doing anything wrong. Thank you so so
much.
One small detail I have since double checked is the number that
called me on the day - This seems to be that of the Hereford
Parking Enforcement office, maybe not the badge issuing office
as I assumed, but these may be the same thing?
The only part of your superbly strong letter that scares me a
bit is the challenge for them to pursue further action, though
they would be daft to do so. Considering how much sleep I have
lost over something so relatively trivial I would feel sick if I
thought I had coaxed them into additional battles. I trust you
of course!
Is there any merit to mentioning the lack of required necessary
information as mentioned by user Incandescent a few comments
ago? It sounds like your argument is enough on its own (and
indeed, is the more important one!)
Again, my eternal thanks for your help and I cannot commend you
enough for what you are doing for people like us.
#Post#: 20220--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 21, 2024, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Turbulent-Pack-447 link ---
>
> The only part of your superbly strong letter that scares me a
bit is the challenge for them to pursue further action, though
they would be daft to do so. Considering how much sleep I have
lost over something so relatively trivial I would feel sick if I
thought I had coaxed them into additional battles.
>
--- End Quote ---
I would not have put that in if I thought there was the remotest
chance of them actually doing so, the likelihood of the council
actually pursuing that is zero. This is not lease because while
a PCN only needs evidence on the balance of probabilities, a
charge of fraud would require evidence beyond reasonable doubt
(which means that if the evidence were to show that you were
probably misusing the blue badge that would not be enough
because it would leave a chance that you might be innocent so a
court would acquit you). There is also the fact that such
charges would have to go through the council's legal department
that employs people who have actually been to law school, rather
than the bunch of clowns who work in parking enforcement, and
there is no way a trained lawyer would touch this with a barge
pole.
--- Quote from: Turbulent-Pack-447 link ---
>
> Is there any merit to mentioning the lack of required
necessary information as mentioned by user Incandescent a few
comments ago?
>
--- End Quote ---
If we had nothing else the argument would be worth pursuing,
however as far as I'm aware we've never actually won a tribunal
case on that point, so I think that in the circumstances it
would just distract from the main argument.
#Post#: 20223--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Turbulent-Pack-447
Date: April 21, 2024, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Very reassuring on both counts, thank you. I agree it's probably
best not to dilute the core issue here.
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
> evidence beyond reasonable doubt
--- End Quote ---
This makes a lot of sense. I suppose using the badge of the
recently deceased would be an open/shut case whereas using the
badge for its intended purpose, perhaps not.
#Post#: 20227--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: roythebus
Date: April 21, 2024, 5:20 pm
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I missed the bit as to who is the blue badge holder, you, your
wife/your son?
It might also be worth the various disability discrimination
acts that could be brought into play.
#Post#: 20231--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: April 21, 2024, 5:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: roythebus link ---
>
> I missed the bit as to who is the blue badge holder, you, your
wife/your son?
>
> It might also be worth the various disability discrimination
acts that could be brought into play.
>
--- End Quote ---
[member=22]roythebus[/member] see the thread title :)
I think the Equality Act might come into it down the line when
we pursue a formal complaint, but that will come into play after
the PCN has been cancelled.
#Post#: 20233--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: roythebus
Date: April 21, 2024, 5:34 pm
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Those laws can be very handy at times. :) As the holder of a
blue badge myself I find it useful most of the time even though
I've got no visible disability, there's a lot of folk out there
in a similar situation. But yes, best leave that as "dry
powder".
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