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#Post#: 17736--------------------------------------------------
PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Turbulent-Pack-447
Date: March 19, 2024, 3:49 pm
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Apologies in advance if this is quite wordy, I am autistic
myself and I hope these are all relevant details and no waffle.
England here.
(Edit: I have misplaced the PCN but I am trying to track it
down. I have attached the rejection letter for the formal appeal
a few posts down.)
A few weeks ago, my wife called me and said our autistic child
was having an extremely tough morning and that she thought it
was best to take him out of school and drop him off with me so I
could take him to a sensory play session, and then take him back
to school hopefully much calmer.
I parked my car in a disabled bay, displayed the blue badge and
clock, and walked immediately over to a spot in front of a shop
to await their arrival. I got a call from the badge issuing
office saying I was seen leaving the car without the badge
holder and to go and speak to the Civil Enforcement Officer by
the car. I went and explained that I was there to collect the
badge holder and that they were on their way. The Officer said
that this is not acceptable as the holder has to be present for
both parts of the journey. I was mortified and explained that I
thought I could use the badge for picking up and dropping off. I
called my wife, but she didn't answer so the warden issued me a
ticket. He did not confiscate the badge.
The officer said to come and find him if I could get hold of
her. She eventually called back and explained that she had been
quickly cleaning feces from the bathroom wall that she had just
discovered and was now collecting him to bring to me. I found
the officer, who spoke to her and made a note of this.
He said I could stay in the space because I had been issued a
ticket and couldn't be issued another one and, quite distressed,
I said I would prefer to just move my car if I was using the
badge incorrectly as he had stated and I didn't want to take up
a space for somebody else. I spoke to my wife and we decided to
collect him later and take him along to the later session
instead as I was so distressed.
My informal appeal was declined on the grounds that the badge
holder had to be in the vehicle on arrival. The PCN was
described as "Parked in a designated disabled person's parking
place without displaying a valid disabled person's badge in the
prescribed manner."
I have since checked, and nothing in my booklet, the council
website, citizens advice etc says that the holder must be
present for the full journey. It is made clear in all resources
that the badge can be used to collect someone or drop them off
and there's no further elaboration on how long I'm allowed to
wait. I presumed that I had the full 2 hours as per the road
sign.
I want to progress to a formal appeal detailing this, but my
wife is terrified we will get taken to court and struggle to
prove our story and wants me to just pay the reduced fine while
I still can. I am concerned that this is an admission of guilt
and will lead to prosecution for abuse of the badge if I pay the
fine.
I don't know what to do and if I get a criminal record I will
lose my job. Please please please help.
#Post#: 17741--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: slapdash
Date: March 19, 2024, 4:37 pm
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Details of location and the authority photos (they should be on
their website) and front and back of the ticket will all help.
Sometimes they contain fatal errors.
Do not pay it just yet, wait until you have a full range of
comments so you can make a more informed decision (I understand
you may just want to get rid of it).
I do not believe you did anything wrong, but cases just like
yours are cropping up a bit.
As an example I see no issue with my son using my badge to
collect me. In this case we happen to both be adults.
If this use is to be prohibited quite how I am supposed to get
to the car when it is much more likely beyond the limit of my
mobility.
To yours, the large print guidance states:-
------
Who can use the badge?
The badge is for your use and benefit only. It must only be
displayed if you are travelling in the vehicle as a driver or
passenger, or if someone is collecting you or dropping you off
and needs to park at the place where you are being collected or
dropped.
------
That seems to cover you. However, how long did the episode take
? It seems there may have been some delay.
If you parked, walked to the shop (how long) and then were
waiting for your wife to bring him (how long) thats a bit
different (but not necessarily misuse).
#Post#: 17743--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: March 19, 2024, 4:42 pm
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Please post the PCN your challenge and the response in full so
we can help.
This from the BB booklet
Who can use the badge?
The badge is for your use and benefit only. It must only be
displayed if you are travelling in the vehicle as a driver or
passenger, or if someone is collecting you or dropping you off
and needs to park at the place where you are being collected or
dropped.
#Post#: 17759--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 19, 2024, 5:43 pm
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Please post the documents requested by 'Pastmybest', they are
essential to us giving full and good advice.
Do not be distressed or intimidated by your informal
representations being rejected; councils reject virtually all of
them, and also tell loads of tosh, even plain lies when doing
so, because they know most people then cough-up, not knowing the
law in any detail.
#Post#: 17762--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Turbulent-Pack-447
Date: March 19, 2024, 5:58 pm
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--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> Please post the PCN your challenge and the response in full so
we can help.
>
--- End Quote ---
I can't believe this but I can't find the PCN now anywhere. I
thought it was in my glove compartment but it is not, I'm
worried I stuffed it somewhere in distress and it got thrown
away. Has this ruined my chances? Can I get a duplicate? I have
the rejection letter which has the PCN number, photos and some
relevant information though if that would be enough? I will keep
looking for the ticket
#Post#: 17764--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 19, 2024, 6:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Post what you have. We can work on it, but I think they are
bluffing their way now, as your use of the BB would seem to have
been completely legal.
#Post#: 17766--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Turbulent-Pack-447
Date: March 19, 2024, 6:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Post what you have. We can work on it, but I think they are
bluffing their way now, as your use of the BB would seem to have
been completely legal.
>
--- End Quote ---
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 17767--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Turbulent-Pack-447
Date: March 19, 2024, 6:23 pm
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--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> However, how long did the episode take ? It seems there may
have been some delay.
>
> If you parked, walked to the shop (how long) and then were
waiting for your wife to bring him (how long) thats a bit
different (but not necessarily misuse).
>
--- End Quote ---
They called me within a couple of minutes of parking, maybe 4
minutes, I had barely arrived and didn't even have time to do
any shopping if I wanted to. The "shop" is a good meeting place
because it's right there by the high street where I parked and
you can pull up easily and we could do the change over safely.
Our house is basically next door to the school so it was easiest
for her to get him and bring him to me. I assumed they were
nearby but it turned out she was going to get him and leave but
got held up slightly because of this toilet stuff. She explained
to the CEO over the phone that she just had to clean up
something gross. With everything going on with toilet and this
ticket we decided to take him to a later sensory session
instead. Even this worries me because I wonder if I should have
stayed and insisted she bring him so it was more clear what we
were doing, but the CEO told me that anything other than the
badge holder being present in the car on arrival was an offense
so I thought I was done for either way and didn't want to be
commiting an offense by parking there anymore.
#Post#: 17769--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 19, 2024, 7:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> but the CEO told me that anything other than the badge holder
being present in the car on arrival was an offense
--- End Quote ---
Totally and utterly, wrong. Wrong, WRONG !!!!
#Post#: 17770--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
DIR By: Turbulent-Pack-447
Date: March 19, 2024, 7:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Totally and utterly, wrong. Wrong, WRONG !!!!
>
--- End Quote ---
That's what has since really upset me, you'll see on the
Informal Appeal denial letter that they make the same point with
some very confusing wording. I think his exact words on the day
when I said "But I thought it was okay to use a badge if you're
picking someone up?" were "No the badge holder has got to be
present on both legs of the journey"
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