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#Post#: 789--------------------------------------------------
Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured signage
DIR By: Cgehansen
Date: July 3, 2023, 4:29 pm
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I received a PCN a few weeks ago for parking in a suspended
residents parking bay. I didn't notice the sign probably because
it was partially hidden behind a resident's parking sign from
the direction that I approached.
The Council have rejected my informal appeal on the basis that
"street signs at this location are lowered because of a
preservation order in place. It is for this reason that the
signs are not raised on posts and more clearly visible." and
that "there is still enough yellow in sight to draw your eye".
Here are Haringey's own evidence photos of the sign which show
it partially obscured
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/131232182@N08...ares/wJ5Xpa7083<br
/>
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/131232182@N08...ares/n60N8Hjf86.
I
wasn't the only person to miss it and get a PCN that day.
Is it worth taking this further and appealing after receiving a
NTO? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to
lose the opportunity of the discount on the PCN if an appeal is
unlikely to be upheld.
Here's the PCN
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/131232182@N08...ares/e289ur8713<br
/>and Haringey's rejection letter
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/131232182@N08...ares/F0g77t72qA<br
/>
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/131232182@N08...ares/oFyA1ar530
#Post#: 791--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured
signage
DIR By: Rudess
Date: July 3, 2023, 4:35 pm
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None of your links work. Please check the URLs
#Post#: 796--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured
signage
DIR By: Cgehansen
Date: July 3, 2023, 5:22 pm
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Sorry this link should work
HTML https://flic.kr/ps/2ZXZyq
#Post#: 806--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured
signage
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 3, 2023, 5:53 pm
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You need to give us the PCN number and the number plate so that
we can have a look at the council photos.
You also need to give us a link to the exact location on google
street view, we need this so that we can order the parking
suspension logs.
To the best of your recollection, when did you park exactly?
There's no point in paying now as the council will re-offer the
discount at the Notice to Owner stage as long as you challenge
the Notice to Owner within 14 days of the date of issue.
#Post#: 813--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured
signage
DIR By: guest179
Date: July 4, 2023, 2:34 am
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Although the geographical extent of this post is the area of the
parking place, this isn't parking suspension as such, it's a
TTO-imposed variation to pre-existing permissions/restrictions.
OP, what's been asked for would at least allow us to see the
exact wording of the notice. If there isn't one in evidence then
the council have no case, the sign could just recite a nursery
rhyme for all an adjudicator would know.
You have no argument regarding visibility IMO because it was
your obligation to check the existing traffic signs
anyway...which leads to the issue of prior notice. Presumably
you are a permit holder, hence their comment about advance
notice. Can you elaborate on this e.g. are you a permit holder,
are you a resident in the street or do you live elsewhere, how
often do you use parking places in this area etc?
#Post#: 836--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured
signage
DIR By: Cgehansen
Date: July 4, 2023, 6:36 am
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Yes I'm a permit holder. The PCN number is ZN07622991 and the
registration LL57ZHB. I parked 34 minutes after the start of the
suspension. Normally I would notice parking suspension signs but
this one was partially hidden and didn't catch my eye when I
parked up. This is the locate on google street view
HTML https://goo.gl/maps/MBUQ88fPdQQ4kFEj8
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured
signage
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 4, 2023, 11:56 am
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If you wait for the Notice to Owner and then challenge it within
14 days of the date of issue, the council will re-offer the
discount to discourage you from appealing to the tribunal (they
don't tell you this now because they'd rather you paid sooner
rather than later).
I have requested all the relevant information about the TTRO, if
it's one of those silly blanket TTROs then Mr Mustard has a good
argument, and there are very strict rules in The Road Traffic
(Temporary Restrictions) Procedure Regulations 1992
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/1215/contents/made<br
/>which they have to follow to make a temporary order, so I
would
definitely carry on at this point.
#Post#: 865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured
signage
DIR By: Cgehansen
Date: July 4, 2023, 1:23 pm
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Thank you. That's very helpful. The most annoying thing is the
suspension was to carry out work which was actually done after
the suspension had ended.
#Post#: 1091--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured
signage
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 10, 2023, 5:30 am
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Council response to information request:
[indent]
The carriageway resurfacing works on Inderwick Road which
commenced on the 24th May 2023 are part of Haringey’s ongoing
Maintenance Programme which falls under the borough wide
maintenance traffic regulation order. I have attached a copy of
the borough wide maintenance traffic regulation order, notice of
intention, notice of making which were advertised in the Enfield
& Haringey Independent and emails which were sent to the
emergency services. Once dates are programmed for the specific
maintenance works, site notices are displayed on site and
notification is sent to emergency services by the maintenance
team. I have attached a photo of the site notices which were
displayed on the 18th May 2023 and a copy of the distribution
email which was sent to the emergency services notifying them of
the works.
[/indent]
The order is The Haringey (Borough Wide Installation and
Maintenance of Traffic, Highways and Arboricultural
Infrastructure) (Temporary Prohibition of Traffic) Order 2023
HTML https://bit.ly/44hILPK.
Notice of intent:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Urrt0xx.png
Notice order made:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/6uhgwlc.png
Notification of intent to police fire and ambulance:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/vHlmoxY.png
Notification of order to police fire and ambulance:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/TFqXsir.png
Internal email:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ZNTpuwL.png
Spreadsheet attached to internal email:
HTML https://bit.ly/3O5Q8nH
Photos of signs taken at time of installation:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/En7lkKZ.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/CCpftzh.jpg
Looks like one ripe for Mr Mustard's blanket TTRO argument.
#Post#: 1093--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN for parking in suspended bay with obscured
signage
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: July 10, 2023, 5:37 am
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I don't lose against haringey when it comes to suspended bays
(or almost anything else!) so please send me a clear scan of the
Notice to owner upon receipt and I can take over for you
CGEHansen.
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