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#Post#: 16759--------------------------------------------------
Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: Tiggerbits
Date: March 4, 2024, 6:01 am
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Hi all,
I've received a PCN for driving through Bristol City Council's
Clean Air Zone on the 03/02/2024 and not paying the charge.
Of course I would like to appeal this, as from some reading it
would appear that is unlawful to request the daily charge and
penalty.
But before I go head I would like to make sure that I do have
grounds to appeal.
I've attached the PCN.
Thanks in advance.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 16763--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: March 4, 2024, 6:09 am
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--- Quote ---
> Of course I would like to appeal this, as from some reading it
would appear that is unlawful to request the daily charge and
penalty.
> But before I go head I would like to make sure that I do have
grounds to appeal.
--- End Quote ---
Bristol have rectified the telephone number. There is still the
odd pagination (where are the other 296 pages?) but not
sufficient. That leaves the demand for the toll+penalty.
Use the search box (top r-h corner) on ' Bristol CAZ' to find
other recent threads (I think you'll find Bristol have yet to go
to TPT), and post a draft representation here for constructive
comment.
Do not miss deadline for maintaining discount.
#Post#: 16773--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: Tiggerbits
Date: March 4, 2024, 7:39 am
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Thanks for the response.
Would the be acceptable?
Dear Bristol City Council,
I challenge liability for PCN BS58819137 on the basis of a
procedural impropriety.
There is no power in Regulation 7 of the The Road User Charging
Schemes (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement)
(England) Regulations 2013, for the PCN to require the CAZ
charge to be paid in addition to the penalty charge.
This is confirmed in an adjudication at the Traffic Penalty
Tribunal in 2018, Luke Moran v Secretary of State for Transport,
case No: IA01249-1803.
Therefore, I am requesting the cancellation of this PCN.
#Post#: 16780--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 4, 2024, 8:52 am
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I have attached the TPT case of 2018. The key sentences are: -
--- Quote ---
> There is no power in Regulation 7 for the PCN to require the
road user charge to be paid in
> addition to the penalty charge. Nor is there a power for the
charging authority to refuse to
> allocate a payment made for a crossing to that crossing, and
hold it, possibly indefinitely, for
> future use.
--- End Quote ---
The case concerned a late payment of the toll, but the first
sentence above applies to all PCNs.
Here is a link to the regulations: -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/7/made
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 17630--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: March 18, 2024, 6:29 pm
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[member=139]Tiggerbits[/member] please could you confirm that
you've sent a representation?
#Post#: 20656--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: Tiggerbits
Date: April 25, 2024, 4:30 pm
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Hello,
Sorry for the delay.
I did indeed send representations, however today I have received
a letter advising that my representations have been rejected.
I will upload an image of the latter shortly.
Thanks
#Post#: 20658--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: Tiggerbits
Date: April 25, 2024, 4:46 pm
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I have attached the letter I have received.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 20665--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 25, 2024, 6:42 pm
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Nice of them to show they've now actually read the regulations.
I don't expect they even knew they existed before ! They are
right that the regs allow them to state in their Order that the
penalty charge is payable in addition to the toll charge.
However, it seems they never got as far as Regulation 7, that
defines the content of a PCN. There are no powers in Regulation
7 that permit the toll charge to be requested on the PCN. If
they want to collect the toll charge, they must use normal debt
recovery procedures.
#Post#: 20668--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: Tiggerbits
Date: April 26, 2024, 1:46 am
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Hi,
You probably are correct, however the wording in the does make
it appear, at least to a layperson like myself, that the council
are correct.
(4) A charging scheme is to specify whether a penalty charge
referred to in paragraph (1) or (2) is payable in addition to
the road user charge or instead of such charge.
If you can help me understand that would be great.
Is it the lack of explicitly defining a rule to allow the
ability to request both the charge and the toll at the same time
that prevents them from how the power to do so?
#Post#: 20672--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bristol City Council - CAZ - A4 Hotwell Road CAZ0001
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 26, 2024, 3:25 am
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Whoever wrote the regulations was an idiot, but councils must
obey the regulations, and those regulations do not permit them
to claim the toll charge on the PCN, as was stated in 2018, by
Caroline Sheppard, the Chief Adjudicator of the Traffic Penalty
Tribunal. However, as far as can be made out, this ruling has
never been tested since. I see they have re-offered the
discount, so it is now your decision whether to take them to TPT
or pay up. If it were me, I'd be going to the TPT, but it's your
money not mine.
Interestingly, the Birmingham CAZ Order specifically states that
payment of the PCN discharges the toll charge debt. Their
lawyers are obviously more up-to-speed than Bristol's.
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