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#Post#: 16544--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: sarahknows
Date: February 29, 2024, 12:02 pm
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Thank you so much for your help. I will proceed on option 2. Can
I just confirm what that really entails. Do I need to keep
replying to the debt collection agency that I am not paying? Or
do I just ignore the letters? What do I need to look out for to
know it is now in the court phase?
I have just found 2 more correspondences. The latest one is now
suggesting they are directing their communications to me so they
seem to have accepted transferred liability just from my earlier
appeal telling them to.
I have uploaded the communications in what I think is
chronological order, (last 2 might be the other way around but
the font was too little in the pics to see). Sorry for not
providing this all at the start. I don't think it changes much
except now they are communicating with me.
HTML https://imgur.com/a/vwy7tf9
HTML https://imgur.com/a/vwy7tf9
#Post#: 16550--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: b789
Date: February 29, 2024, 12:41 pm
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Without knowing who the NtK is addressed to we do not know who
they are pursuing. Do you have a NtK addressed to you, not your
husband?
Them "directing communications" to you does not show that they
are pursuing anyone other than the registered keeper at this
stage. Is there not a tear off slip on the back of the NtK for
transferring liability to the driver?
There is no "debt collector" correspondence that you have shown
us. Only PCMUK reminders. If there is any doubt, I suggest you
email PCMUK and clarify the status of the PCN and who they are
pursuing and in what capacity, driver, keeper or both. You need
a definitive answer to that question.
#Post#: 16563--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: WhoLetTheScamsOut
Date: February 29, 2024, 4:41 pm
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--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Please have a read of PoFA 9(2)(e)(ii) which states as
follows:
>
> [The notice must] state that the creditor does not know both
the name of the driver and a current address for service for the
driver and invite the keeper—
>
> (i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
>
> (ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify
the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for
service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;
>
> The NtK does not mention anything about passing the notice to
the driver.
>
> However, this is a moot point as the driver has now been
identified and is liable. It would have been a valid point if
your husband hadn't decided to throw you under the bus.
>
> As you have now passed the appeals process, you need to be
prepared to weather a storm of useless debt collector letters
which are designed to get low hanging fruit on the gullible tree
to capitulate and pay into the scam. You will need to protect
your husband from these. Unless you receive a Letter of Claim
(loC) or similar worded letter giving you 30 days to pay or face
a claim, there is nothing you can do.
>
> They may never bother to actually go that far. However, you
are dealing with a very greedy scammer who is likely to try it
on in the hope that you will give in and pay up rather than
defend a claim.
>
--- End Quote ---
This scammer took me to court last year for similar
circumstances but in my case i was fully on the pavement. My
solo winning point was that 9(2)(e)(ii) was not met and the
judge struck out the case. Probably could’ve had it discontinued
during the witness stage but unfortunately i missed that and had
it sent very late (day before hearing but judge allowed it).
#Post#: 16564--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: February 29, 2024, 4:43 pm
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--- Quote from: WhoLetTheScamsOut link ---
>
> This scammer took me to court last year for similar
circumstances but in my case i was fully on the pavement. My
solo winning point was that 9(2)(e)(ii) was not met and the
judge struck out the case. Probably could’ve had it discontinued
during the witness stage but unfortunately i missed that and had
it sent very late (day before hearing but judge allowed it).
>
--- End Quote ---
If you're able to share a (redacted) version of the defence and
WS you submitted this might be of help to the OP
#Post#: 16567--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: WhoLetTheScamsOut
Date: February 29, 2024, 5:43 pm
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--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> [quote author=WhoLetTheScamsOut
link=topic=1416.msg16563#msg16563 date=1709246475]
> This scammer took me to court last year for similar
circumstances but in my case i was fully on the pavement. My
solo winning point was that 9(2)(e)(ii) was not met and the
judge struck out the case. Probably could’ve had it discontinued
during the witness stage but unfortunately i missed that and had
it sent very late (day before hearing but judge allowed it).
>
--- End Quote ---
If you're able to share a (redacted) version of the defence and
WS you submitted this might be of help to the OP
[/quote]
I will have a look over the weekend what i can find from my case
and share accordingly and i will also share the result posted
from court
#Post#: 16579--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: sarahknows
Date: March 1, 2024, 3:42 am
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There is a tear off slip but it is in the middle of the page so
I didnt want to tear up the NtoK. It says to submit the form on
the website so I will get my husband to complete it and upload
it there so liability is formally passed to me.
Currently no debt collection letters just threats at the end of
the reminders.
So for 9(2)(e)(ii) them saying 'confirm the name and address of
driver of the driver to which this notice can be served' is not
sufficient. They needed to say to pass it on? I would appreciate
guidance on this please, I didn't realise this was that
significant. I was more upset about only being there for less
than 5 mins and that being classified as parking.
They rejected the appeal from my husband and then when they are
informed of the driver, shouldn't they have issued another NtoK
to me in line with their procedures outlined rather than tell me
the appeal by my husband has been rejected?
You guys are amazing, thank you so much.
#Post#: 16582--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: March 1, 2024, 4:10 am
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--- Quote ---
> So for 9(2)(e)(ii) them saying 'confirm the name and address
of driver of the driver to which this notice can be served' is
not sufficient.
--- End Quote ---
If your husband names you as the driver (which it sounds like is
the plan?), then this becomes irrelevant, as they will no longer
need to hold the keeper liable, as they will know the driver's
details and be able to pursue them directly.
--- Quote ---
> shouldn't they have issued another NtoK
--- End Quote ---
Not another Notice to Keeper, as you are not the keeper, but
they ought to have issued a charge addressed to you directly.
#Post#: 16583--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: sarahknows
Date: March 1, 2024, 4:50 am
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Okay so 9(2)(e)(ii) is not relevant if the liability is
transferred and so my defence is around Jopson v Homeguard that
it was not parking, it was unloading, if this goes ahead.
Please can you confirm if I need to do anything further as the
threatening letters come in or do I just sit tight until I get
..what exactly?
#Post#: 16587--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: b789
Date: March 1, 2024, 5:56 am
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They should issue a charge directly to you as the driver and
should, in theory, restart the clock and allowing you to appeal
to them and to their IAS if they refuse the initial appeal.
You could then try the IAS kangaroo court but breath holding is
not advised. If the IAS refuse the appeal then you will have to
wait and see if/when they send a Letter of Claim and then if
they issue a claim. They may not but they will have 6 years to
issue one.
A court claim is your best bet to get this over with. A judge
can decide whether you owe them a debt or not. With a robust
defence there is a high probability that they would discontinue
before court. If they are foolish enough to try and take this
all the way, you have a very good defence with Jonpon v
Homeguard.
The evidence shows a stop of only 42 seconds. You must stop
saying you were there only “minutes” or more as there is no
evidence that you were.
There is no threat to your credit score. If, in the unlikely
event it went to court and you lost, you’d still pay less than
whatever they put on a claim and as long as it was paid within
30 days, there is nothing on your credit record.
For now, get the liability transferred and then we can take it
from there. You are dealing with a seriously, intellectually
malnourished company of ex-clamper scammers. If we thought there
was little to no chance of beating this, we would not be
advising fight it.
#Post#: 16748--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN (PCM ltd) for parking on paved area when not allowed
DIR By: sarahknows
Date: March 4, 2024, 3:37 am
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Thanks - they have now been informed formally. I will wait for
the next steps. You are right I was less than a minute. Thanks
so much.
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