DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 22637--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: YoungDigga
Date: May 15, 2024, 4:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1]cp8759[/member]
Just checked today and see that the council has uploaded their
representation now. Could someone help to take a look at this
most of it is what I've already shared previously. It appears
the lease company did not share a copy or my lease agreement and
greenwich just took word that the car is on a lease to me to
transfer ownership of liability. So seems like this is good
enough ground to appeal. I have redacted my name and address.
Let me know if any other information is needed.
HTML https://ibb.co/ftW0GC8
HTML https://ibb.co/tBYQRXb
HTML https://ibb.co/x2RbD86
HTML https://ibb.co/wd4bFFK
HTML https://ibb.co/xmtLM7Y
HTML https://ibb.co/PDWjDYz
HTML https://ibb.co/YhJ1y3r
#Post#: 22639--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 15, 2024, 4:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1280]YoungDigga[/member] you have two argument then,
that the camera isn't approved and that the vehicle is on lease
to you but there is no proof of a transfer of keepership because
the terms of the lease are not before the adjudicator. The
pitfall with that argument is that the lease is for several
years and many adjudicators would say it's long enough for them
to infer a de-facto transfer of keepership, as shown by this
case:
Hakan Sefiloglu v London Borough of Ealing (2210427465, 9
October 2021)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/15iOG44PcGCWMF9m_bwD42dW2ZVcpXZuq/view
Hakan Sefiloglu v London Borough of Ealing (2210427465, 24
October 2021)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gaqKvU-3FMB6vINJ6PPe-BlLYRAAGvSx/view
I'm not sure the same adjudicator would make the same decision
today, but there is a risk. It would be best to post up the
terms and conditions of your lease so we can check if the
argument can be bolstered, if any of the terms and conditions
show that the registered keeper maintained a significant degree
of control over the vehicle that would strengthen this ground.
There is no notice of acceptance from the council to the hire
company, so there was no power to serve a further penalty charge
on you. This should be a straightforward argument but it needs
to be articulated correctly. Cases which can be cited on this
point are Wasim Ismail v London Borough of Redbridge
(2200346764, 10 October 2020)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xwFb3iSglbSYLKvcrfCPis6P0i_M1ZnU/view,<br
/>Mohamad Rafik Gani v London Borough of Newham (221024696A, 14
June 2021)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TRqvyLrxRoNvFcwTQCFwPqDm-CXB9s2m/view<br
/>and Modou Sanneh v London Borough of Newham (2210340629, 17
July
2021)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/18t9WauALiCjJnwP_FLwcGEHqpaxk_iZw/view,<br
/>but really this requires an argument that takes the
adjudicator
through the statutory provisions.
The relevant provisions are regulation 10(6) to 10(9) of The
Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved
Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England)
Regulations 2022
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/10
and
regulation 6(8) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic
Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England)
Regulations 2022
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/576/regulation/6.
The key question therefore is whether you want to have a bash at
writing an argument yourself, or whether you'd rather be
represented. If you want to represent yourself then have a go at
writing a draft based on the above and I will also email you the
FOI response with the camera make and model details, so that you
can put it forward as evidence.
If you'd like me to represent you, just follow the instructions
in the PM I sent you previously.
#Post#: 32047--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 2, 2024, 7:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Outcome
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kP5brQ_FbPyeVifoQ5eTCu-0I1Psgyfb/view.
#Post#: 32060--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: August 3, 2024, 4:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The Authority’s case is that the Appellant’s vehicle was stopped
in a restricted bus stop or stand when prohibited in Millennium
Way on 26 December 2024 at 23:00. :)
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 3
DIR Previous Page