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#Post#: 16070--------------------------------------------------
2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: YoungDigga
Date: February 22, 2024, 9:06 am
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Hey seeking for some advise here
I received two PCNs for the following contravention - 47J -
Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand (camera enforcement)
at millennium way in royal borough greenwich. For anyone that
has driven to north greenwich recently you will know there is an
insane amount of road work going on there at the moment. All the
usual pickup/dropoff spots are coned off and there are roadworks
in the suggested car park location that the 02 suggest you use.
I used to live around the area and I recall this so called "bus
stop" being a pickup/dropoff location. I was unable to the
double yellow lines either side of this bus stop because they
were coned off. I've never received two PCNs on the same day
before but from what I've read they should be treated as one due
to receiving these both at the same time. From searching the
forum I've seen other cases where people received a warning
notice first. I guess the council isn't obliged to issue a
warning notice but this is a shame given the circumstances as
not sure where else I could possible pickup/dropoff there. My
car is on a long term lease but not sure I understand the
technicality of transfer of liability here with leases. My lease
company first notified me of the PCN via email and wrote a
letter to RBG with a third party authorisation letter. I don't
see a hire agreement attached and not sure if this valid without
it as the letter simply says the vehicle is on a long term lease
and has contract start and end date. Although they could have
well sent the hire agreement and not included it in my copy.
Also not sure if they are supposed to include a hire agreement
with the PCN that is then sent to me but I never got one but
seems like this is specific to private PCNs. Lastly, from what I
understand the original PCN should be cancelled and a new one be
issued to me. I have a PCN addressed to me that was posted which
has the same PCN # etc how can they prove they canceled the
original PCN? It seems like they've just reissued the same pcn
but addressed to me. I would like to contest the PCN but not
sure what angle to contest it on there are few basis I see as a
ground for appeal but not sure what the strongest point is. PCN
docs listed below. Let me know if there is any other information
required.
Also happy to upload copies of the documents including the PCN
number and Reg if needed.
PCN1
Notification
HTML https://ibb.co/mR9Z46f
Original PCN
HTML https://ibb.co/3B6s98V
Third Party Auth
HTML https://ibb.co/5Ymqgyy
PCN Reissued
HTML https://ibb.co/r3FjFSr
Video
HTML https://streamable.com/ahhi9f
PCN2
Notification
HTML https://ibb.co/6D2T885
Original PCN
HTML https://ibb.co/mGjJZb2
Third Party Auth
HTML https://ibb.co/Pxd4ZXr
PCN Reissued
HTML https://ibb.co/zFnpd4T
Video
HTML https://streamable.com/r8lu68
#Post#: 16071--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 22, 2024, 9:49 am
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The easiest way to get rid of these would be to challenge the
transfer of liability. The council will never accept anything
you say but if you just make a representation asking them to
cancel, that will get the notice of rejection that you need to
take it to the tribunal.
As far as we are aware Greenwich doesn't send a notice of
acceptance to hire companies, but I would contact them anyway to
check:
[indent]
Dear hire Company,
In respect of PCNs XXX and YYY, please would you confirm if you
have received any correspondence from the local authority since
requesting a transfer of liability?
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
#Post#: 16076--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: YoungDigga
Date: February 22, 2024, 10:38 am
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Awesome thanks! Just sent this to the hire company and will look
to do an appeal which as you mentioned will most likely get
rejected.
Is there any way for these to be treated together either through
tribunal or to get one cancelled out as they were both issues on
the same day? or do I just need to appeal them both waiting for
the rejection and go through tribunal for them both
independently?
#Post#: 16094--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: taffer87
Date: February 22, 2024, 4:11 pm
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separately
#Post#: 16096--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 22, 2024, 6:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You need to make representations against each PCN individually,
but at the tribunal stage you can appeal up to 4 rejections on a
single appeal.
#Post#: 18060--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: YoungDigga
Date: March 22, 2024, 6:19 am
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Okay so I got the notice of rejection is there a template or
another post you can point me to in order to best challenge the
transfer of liability at tribunal?
#Post#: 18067--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: YoungDigga
Date: March 22, 2024, 7:01 am
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This is what I've got so far
--- Quote ---
> Dear Sir/Madam,
> I am writing to appeal the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) issued
to me on 06/02/2024 for 47J - Stopped on a restricted bus stop
or stand. I believe that I have grounds for appeal based on the
fact that the liability for this PCN should not lie with me, but
rather with the owner of the vehicle, [insert name of leasing
company].
> As the lease holder of the vehicle in question, I contest the
transfer of liability to me for the following reasons:
> 1. Failure to provide evidence: There is no evidence to
suggest that I was driving the vehicle at the time the PCN was
issued. Without such evidence, it is unfair to hold me liable
for the penalty.
> 2. Breach of contract: The terms of my lease agreement with
Mercedes-Benz Finance do not make provision for the transfer of
liability for PCNs to the lease holder. Therefore, I believe
that the transfer of liability in this case constitutes a breach
of contract.
> 3. Non-compliance with regulations: My lease agreement does
not satisfy the requirements set out in The Road Traffic (Owner
Liability) Regulations 2000, which state that a statement of
liability signed by the hirer must be included in any lease
agreement where the owner of the vehicle seeks to transfer
liability for PCNs to the lease holder. As such, I believe that
the transfer of liability in this case is invalid.
> In light of these points, I respectfully request that the PCN
be cancelled.
> Thank you for taking the time to consider my appeal. I look
forward to hearing from you soon.
> Yours sincerely,
--- End Quote ---
How does this sound?
#Post#: 18073--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: taffer87
Date: March 22, 2024, 7:51 am
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--- Quote from: YoungDigga link ---
>
> Okay so I got the notice of rejection is there a template or
another post you can point me to in order to best challenge the
transfer of liability at tribunal?
>
--- End Quote ---
Please post the pics of the notice or rejection
Usually you should do the Tribunal appeal online and request in
/ person or telephone hearing and just say "I rely on my formal
representations and will provide further detail on review of the
council evidence bundle". Then wait for evidence bundle as they
could just decide not to contest
#Post#: 18091--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: YoungDigga
Date: March 22, 2024, 11:58 am
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Here is the notice of rejection
HTML https://ibb.co/RSXyKcw
#Post#: 18205--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2x PCN Royal Greenwich Millennium Way 47J - Stopped on a
restricted bus stop or stand- Lease/Hire
DIR By: YoungDigga
Date: March 24, 2024, 2:36 pm
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Posted the notice of rejection. Let me know if my template is
okay to use as looking to get this send out asap before we head
into easter. Nearing the 28 days period
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