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#Post#: 17163--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: 10shinhan
Date: March 11, 2024, 6:08 pm
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Agreed.
>
> OP, will you pl get away from the narrow issue of PoFA and
answer my questions in #13 e.g. what 'landlord regulations', how
conveyed etc. etc?
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry I've been away.
What do you mean by landlord regulations?
#Post#: 17171--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: March 12, 2024, 9:38 am
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HCA was quoting what you wrote in your OP
--- Quote ---
>
> I complained to the management company, explaining I have the
right to park there and that I did not want to use a permit,
explaining that this is poor practice when you could easily
whitelist licence plates. I also mentioned that the lease allows
us to use the parking space without having to show a permit.
They responded:
>
> "Having reviewed the lease I can confirm, the parking space is
a retained part and therefore not included in your demised
property. As a leaseholder you have the right to park in the
space but must comply with the regulations set out by the
landlord which relate to use of the retained parts.
--- End Quote ---
Presumably the "regulations" were set out in the signs posted in
#3. Have there been any other communications setting out the
conditions for parking?
#Post#: 17173--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: 10shinhan
Date: March 12, 2024, 9:43 am
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--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> HCA was quoting what you wrote in your OP
>
> [quote]
> I complained to the management company, explaining I have the
right to park there and that I did not want to use a permit,
explaining that this is poor practice when you could easily
whitelist licence plates. I also mentioned that the lease allows
us to use the parking space without having to show a permit.
They responded:
>
> "Having reviewed the lease I can confirm, the parking space is
a retained part and therefore not included in your demised
property. As a leaseholder you have the right to park in the
space but must comply with the regulations set out by the
landlord which relate to use of the retained parts.
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Thanks.
To answer the question, I believe this is the part of the lease
the management company was referring to:
"To comply with all variations of these Regulations and all
other reasonable and proper regulations made by the Landlord or
its agents from time to time in accordance with the principles
of good estate management and notified to the Tenant that relate
to
(a) the use of the Retained Parts
(b) the management of the Building and the welfare of its
occupants. "
#Post#: 17183--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: guest968
Date: March 12, 2024, 12:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 10shinhan link ---
>
> I believe they got my details through the DVLA via the reg
plate.
--- End Quote ---
You can check if they did by asking the DVLA to give you the
details of all the requests for keeper details made to them - go
to their website for info on how to do that.
If they didn't get your details that way, then does PoFA & the
NtK remain a "narrow issue" or become an unequivocal loss of the
parking companies right to pursue the keeper for the debt?
#Post#: 17190--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: 10shinhan
Date: March 12, 2024, 2:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scientist and Saint link ---
>
> [quote author=10shinhan link=topic=1362.msg15938#msg15938
date=1708440920]
> I believe they got my details through the DVLA via the reg
plate.
--- End Quote ---
You can check if they did by asking the DVLA to give you the
details of all the requests for keeper details made to them - go
to their website for info on how to do that.
If they didn't get your details that way, then does PoFA & the
NtK remain a "narrow issue" or become an unequivocal loss of the
parking companies right to pursue the keeper for the debt?
[/quote]
They mention in the ticket that they requested the details from
the DVLA
#Post#: 17214--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: March 13, 2024, 7:04 am
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Sorry OP, but you cannot just post this and then leave it!
a) the use of the Retained Parts
(b) the management of the Building and the welfare of its
occupants. "
Capital letters = defined terms.
So how are Retained Parts and Building defined?
And, again, how were you notified of changes in the form
required under your lease and by whom??
#Post#: 17246--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: 10shinhan
Date: March 14, 2024, 3:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Sorry OP, but you cannot just post this and then leave it!
>
> a) the use of the Retained Parts
> (b) the management of the Building and the welfare of its
occupants. "
>
> Capital letters = defined terms.
>
> So how are Retained Parts and Building defined?
>
> And, again, how were you notified of changes in the form
required under your lease and by whom??
>
--- End Quote ---
Retained Parts: all parts of the building other than the
property and the Flats including:
(e)the Parking Space;
"And, again, how were you notified of changes in the form
required under your lease and by whom??"
The was a letter sent out by the parking company, and the
management company. I'm not sure where to find the changes
needed on the lease. But I think I know what you're getting at.
They don't have the right to change the lease like this, most
likely:
For a change to be made to the terms of the lease, there has to
be 75% agreement, with not more than 10% disagreeing.
According to s37 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1987.
I'm asking the management company when they received the 75% in
order for the change to be made.
#Post#: 17993--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: thevaliant
Date: March 21, 2024, 3:01 pm
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Still plenty of defence angles:
Do you need to display a permit? Lease appears to say not, but
the usual 'reasonable regulation' rule rears its ugly head.
Is it reasonable for a lessee to be required to display a
permit? (Probably)
Is it reasonable, if the lessee DOESN'T comply with the
requirement to display a permit, for an unknown stranger to the
lease to be paid £100 - highly unlikely.
The landlords options, if the lessee fails to display a permit
AND the display of a permit is deemed reasonable (by a judge)
would be for the landlord, the freeholder, to undertake legal
action against the lessee for breach of the lease. This might
include damages, or in extreme cases forfeiture of the lease.
Under no circumstances would it mean the lessee had to pay some
random fellow walking past at the time (ie, a PPC).
Run that defence too.
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