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#Post#: 15919--------------------------------------------------
PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: 10shinhan
Date: February 20, 2024, 4:48 am
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Hi all
I live in a block of flats, and I have an allocated space. Which
I have the right to use but I don't own the parking space, it
is considered a 'Retained Part' under the lease.
Parking enforcement was brought in last year, but as of
recently, I have only just received a ticket (7th Feb), then I
received 4 more tickets over the next few days.
The parking company is forcing us to use a paper parking permit,
which I was not using at the time, but I have now used to stop
the constant tickets I'm getting.
I complained to the management company, explaining I have the
right to park there and that I did not want to use a permit,
explaining that this is poor practice when you could easily
whitelist licence plates. I also mentioned that the lease allows
us to use the parking space without having to show a permit.
They responded:
"Having reviewed the lease I can confirm, the parking space is a
retained part and therefore not included in your demised
property. As a leaseholder you have the right to park in the
space but must comply with the regulations set out by the
landlord which relate to use of the retained parts.
The management company can give instruction for there to be
parking management on site, the company that has been instructed
operate through the use of permits and not number plates.
I would advise you display your permit to ensure the regulations
are followed and tickets are not received.
If the parking company have rejected your appeal then they feel
a ticket has been provided in line with the restrictions and you
would need to pass any further disputes through their dispute
processes, this is not something I can change unfortunately."
I think my management agent is talking about the 'Regulation'
section:
"27. To comply with all variations of these regulations and all
other reasonable and proper regulations made by the Landlord or
its agents from time to time in accordance with the principles
of good estate management and notified to the Tenant that relate
to:
(a) the use of the Retained Parts
(b) the management of the Building and the welfare of its
occupants; and
(c) the use of any Service Media, structures or other items
outside the Building that are used or capable of being used by
the building in common with other land."
There are a few mentions of parking in the lease, including:
"Use of retained parts
The right for the Tenant and all persons authorised by the
tenant: To park a private motor car or private motor cycle
belonging to the tenant or its visitor in the Parking space."
How can I choose who is authorised if there is a permit
involved?
Please, can you advise?
#Post#: 15921--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: b789
Date: February 20, 2024, 5:00 am
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What does the head lease say about parking? You ay need to find
out whether the introduction of the PPC is an alteration to the
lease. If it is, and we don't know, then you may have a case
against the management company for breach of the Landlord and
Tenant Act 1987 Section 37 5(a) or (b). If there is a breach of
the Act, then the PPC have no right to form any contract and
issue parking charges.
Which PPC?
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/31/section/37
#Post#: 15923--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: 10shinhan
Date: February 20, 2024, 6:20 am
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Thanks for the response. Sorry I didn't say the parking company.
It's Countrywide Parking Management.
"You ay need to find out whether the introduction of the PPC is
an alteration to the lease."
This is a good point. I wonder where I can find this
information. I have a 15 minute call with www.lease-advice.org
tomorrow, I will ask them. Or any where else I can find this
information?
At the beginning of the lease it says this about parking:
Parking Space: the parking space show in green on plan 2 OR in
such area as the Landlord shall from time to time designate.
There is nothing in here about parking permits or even bringing
in a PPC. When I moved into the property we had visitor spaces,
they turned them into contractor spaces and now have hired a
PPC.
#Post#: 15924--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: February 20, 2024, 6:23 am
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--- Quote from: 10shinhan link ---
>
> Parking Space: the parking space show in green on plan 2 OR in
such area as the Landlord shall from time to time designate.
>
--- End Quote ---
And is there one shown in green on plan 2?
#Post#: 15926--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: b789
Date: February 20, 2024, 6:55 am
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Do you have access to the head lease or are you referring to
your tenancy agreement?
#Post#: 15929--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: 10shinhan
Date: February 20, 2024, 7:09 am
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--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Do you have access to the head lease or are you referring to
your tenancy agreement?
>
--- End Quote ---
It just says 'lease'; it's in the report on the proposed
purchase of the property when I bought the place. Is this what
you would call the head lease?
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> [quote author=10shinhan link=topic=1362.msg15923#msg15923
date=1708431632]
> Parking Space: the parking space show in green on plan 2 OR in
such area as the Landlord shall from time to time designate.
>
--- End Quote ---
And is there one shown in green on plan 2?
[/quote]
There is a picture after the end of the document. But no green
on it.
There is another picture from the land registry. But I think the
green is not related.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 15932--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: b789
Date: February 20, 2024, 7:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I assumed you were a tenant rather than an owner.
However, if the lease mentions parking in the "retained space"
and there is no mention of a requirement to display a permit,
there could be an argument that the managing agent has amended
the lease without adhering to the requirements of the Landlord
and Tenant Act.
It will probably require someone with legal training to
interpret it precisely as there could be the possibility that
mention of the retained area in their "regulation" clause gives
them an "out" for this.
Was this a windscreen notice or a postal notice? Can you show us
a suitably redacted copy of the Notice to Keeper (NtK) front and
back. Leave in all dates. Also, some pictures of the actual
signs that contain the terms could be useful.
#Post#: 15934--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: 10shinhan
Date: February 20, 2024, 8:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Sorry, I assumed you were a tenant rather than an owner.
However, if the lease mentions parking in the "retained space"
and there is no mention of a requirement to display a permit,
there could be an argument that the managing agent has amended
the lease without adhering to the requirements of the Landlord
and Tenant Act.
>
> It will probably require someone with legal training to
interpret it precisely as there could be the possibility that
mention of the retained area in their "regulation" clause gives
them an "out" for this.
>
> Was this a windscreen notice or a postal notice? Can you show
us a suitably redacted copy of the Notice to Keeper (NtK) front
and back. Leave in all dates. Also, some pictures of the actual
signs that contain the terms could be useful.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I am a leaseholder (owner); sorry, I didn't make that
clear.
It was a postal notice. I have attached the pictures of the
notice and the signs
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 15935--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: b789
Date: February 20, 2024, 8:26 am
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The NtK is not PoFA compliant. Has the driver been identified to
the PPC? If not, you can appeal as the registered keeper. Not
that that will get these scammers to cancel a certainly the IAS
appeal will be rejected. However, as long as they do not have
the drivers details, if they try a court claim, without having
the drivers details, they will lose.
None of the above removes the possible problems with the lease
and supremacy of contract.
#Post#: 15938--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in my own space - Not showing permit
DIR By: 10shinhan
Date: February 20, 2024, 8:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> The NtK is not PoFA compliant. Has the driver been identified
to the PPC? If not, you can appeal as the registered keeper. Not
that that will get these scammers to cancel a certainly the IAS
appeal will be rejected. However, as long as they do not have
the drivers details, if they try a court claim, without having
the drivers details, they will lose.
>
> None of the above removes the possible problems with the lease
and supremacy of contract.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have appealed to the PPC, and of course they rejected the
appeal. I believe they got my details through the DVLA via the
reg plate.
Are the IAS that bad? They would definitely reject my appeal?
I've had success with POPLA in the past or are they very
different?
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