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#Post#: 15850--------------------------------------------------
HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain vehicles
buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: soundpound
Date: February 18, 2024, 5:39 pm
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CAMROSE AVENUE 04 Feb 2024 @17:34 x2!!
Little did i know how famous this money trap is, has nothing
done to address it over the years?
Hi Guys/Girls,
I decieded to help one of my student tennants move her things
back home in Harrow from Hatfield as she was moving out and i
was headed in that direction so why not - now this letter x 2
landed on my doorstep ! :-[
I have asked for cctv footage by email and by using the website
link i saw on here, about a week ago and yet to receive anything
- keep checking like a paranoid fool my junk emails ! :'(
So i recevied actually 2 PCN's both recorded at the same time -
so firstly this is not allowable im sure, both have different
PCN numbers. Why did it decide to send me two??
I was unfamiliar with the road and was from memory surrounded by
other cars, checking my GPS route which said straight on! and
only saw the Bus Gate at the last moment, im sure somone infront
also when through!
As it seemed very narrow and lots of cars to the back and side
of me moving into the right hand side lane for cars seemed more
dangerous than driving straight, me thinking that its a sunday
and after 7pm there should not be any kind of bus lane penalty
associated with this place.
The road layout and the fact that there is short amount of time
to make an informed decision meant that i took the safer route
of driving straight through - if i had prior warning with decent
signage eg if it said AT ANYTIME or something similar i would
have not done it, but lets face it its a money making scheme to
trap us!
1)
HTML https://i.imgur.com/DzbPk9U.jpg
2)
HTML https://imgur.com/B2jaV0X
only signs i found before the approach of the pcn location
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/wrNvct3HYM7q76QG9
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/sGbVN7xBLH3otzk67
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZysRbNSYPtRSHG8Y9
from the other side
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/iRzukfEmdtvDP1ft7
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z7efNFeW9XMhFkJL8
I'm not sure if the google images show the current signage - i
may 'carefully' pass by there again to take my own photos.
I will be sending the challenge soon - i have been waiting for
the video footage first to get a better idea of what happened
but my time to pay within 14 days at £65 expires on the 21st Feb
2024.
Given the history of this place what are my chances of winning
an appeal?
Appreciate all help offered!!
#Post#: 15855--------------------------------------------------
Re: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain
vehicles buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 18, 2024, 6:17 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Given the history of this place what are my chances of winning
an appeal?
--- End Quote ---
Not good, I'm afraid, but you can see for yourself by looking at
the London Tribunals Statutory Register under "Camrose Avenue",
plus with a date range.
HTML https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:30::INITIALISE::Y::&cs=30Ek2KiLP5CJSj1uuVzncpyB0sRXYBQYRjS3mwD-LanDspjdn1D51m4_ug2OK-d9-_rRI7ygqjStaRqDME23lcg
However, you should be able to get the 2nd PCN cancelled off as
it is a single contravention from what your narrative describes.
#Post#: 15856--------------------------------------------------
Re: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain
vehicles buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: soundpound
Date: February 18, 2024, 6:51 pm
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Wow thanks for that - it makes for some sombre reading
unfortunatly. Although in most cases it is judged that a
contrvention occured from my observation there is no challenges
on the poor layout of the road which does not give the drivers
enough time to plan ahead and move into the 'correct' lane. How
can this be overthrown? it seems like the judge is in cahoots
with the council!
The fact that it is a very poor layout in terms of safety and
warning signs especially at night time and if its raining etc -
there should be a petition to add more signs further up the road
to warn drivers to 'get in lane' or similar - im sure the £1.8
million per month revenue would cover that! This is a disgrace
>:(
#Post#: 15859--------------------------------------------------
Re: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain
vehicles buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: soundpound
Date: February 18, 2024, 10:11 pm
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I am thinking to challenge it based on the following:
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice issued to my vehicle. After a thorough review of the
circumstances and the local signage, I believe the PCN was
wrongly issued for the following reasons:
Adequacy of Signage: The signage indicating the bus gate on
Camrose Avenue is inadequate, particularly during nighttime
conditions when visibility is reduced. The lack of sufficient
illumination and clarity on the signage did not provide the
necessary alert to the approaching bus gate restriction. This
inadequacy is heightened by the fact that the only advanced
warning signs visible were related to a width restriction, not a
bus gate.
Late Disclosure of Restriction: The positioning and timing of
the bus gate signage did not afford adequate time to safely
maneuver out of the bus gate lane. Due to the flow of traffic
and for the safety of all road users, I was compelled to proceed
through the bus gate to avoid a potential traffic incident. This
decision was made in the interest of safety, given the immediate
traffic conditions and the sudden appearance of the restriction.
Faded Road Markings: The road markings indicating the bus gate
were noticeably faded and not observable during the night. The
bus gate's red road surface did not offer a sufficient approach
distance to safely realign the vehicle, contributing to the
confusion and the eventual contravention.
Inconsistent Road Treatments: The absence of standard double
yellow, red lines, solid white line, which are typically
consistent with bus gates and bus lines, contributed to the
confusion. Additionally, the bus gate's unconventional placement
compared to standard practices in London further misled me as a
driver.
Lack of Pre-warning Signs: The presence of a pre-warning sign
before the crossroad or near the central island would have
provided crucial additional time to adjust vehicle positioning.
The sudden appearance of the bus gate restriction, without
adequate pre-warning, significantly increased the risk of a
traffic incident.
The Traffic Signs Manual and the Traffic Signs Regulations and
General Directions (TSRGD) 2016 set clear standards for signage
and road markings, which I believe were not adequately met in
this instance. Given these points, I respectfully request that
the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.
I trust that you will find these points sufficient to warrant a
revocation of the PCN. Should you require any further
information or photographic evidence, please do not hesitate to
contact me.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Yours sincerely,
If someone can help add a bit more or revise this to add more
weight would be great!
I have added pics that evening from there CCTV stills and also
you can see from GSV how confusing and cramped the area is on
approach albeit photo taken back in 2008, i will be back there
tomorrow to get some better snaps to add to the case!!
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 15879--------------------------------------------------
Re: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain
vehicles buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 19, 2024, 5:21 am
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Please show the other side(s) of the PCNs as there may well be
a technical argument. This may well apply:
I bring a collateral challenge on the basis that the PCN is
unenforceable because the taken without consent ground clearly
fetters to theft by its very wording that a crime report be
provided. Therefore, this inaccurate reflection of the statutory
ground does not take into account that a relative, or friend,
may have taken the vehicle without the owner's permission so
that the owner would not necessarily, if at all, report the
matter to the Police in such circumstances or, indeed, make an
insurance claim.
#Post#: 15900--------------------------------------------------
Re: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain
vehicles buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: soundpound
Date: February 19, 2024, 12:33 pm
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Hi Hippo - many thanks i have attached here but i do not see any
wording that looks similar.
HTML https://imgur.com/gallery/0su8G3h
#Post#: 15903--------------------------------------------------
Re: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain
vehicles buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 19, 2024, 3:44 pm
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I do.
#Post#: 15987--------------------------------------------------
Re: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain
vehicles buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: soundpound
Date: February 20, 2024, 8:45 pm
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Yes i see it now! Should have gone to specsavers!! lol
Based on that technicality alone i guess it could go in my
favour - does it depend on the day or would you say there is a
good chance that it would work?
#Post#: 16013--------------------------------------------------
Re: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain
vehicles buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 21, 2024, 6:43 am
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--- Quote from: soundpound link ---
>
> Yes i see it now! Should have gone to specsavers!! lol
>
> Based on that technicality alone i guess it could go in my
favour - does it depend on the day or would you say there is a
good chance that it would work?
>
--- End Quote ---
It depends on what their reply is - if any.
#Post#: 57413--------------------------------------------------
Re: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain
vehicles buses cycles and taxis only
DIR By: Nik
Date: February 10, 2025, 6:31 am
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Hi! Any luck with this appeal? I’ve had the same PCN so would
appreciate any advice please. It’s a complete joke to give so
many people PCNs for this. Clearly their signs are not adequate
and don’t provide enough time to see them and act accordingly.
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