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#Post#: 15832--------------------------------------------------
SJPN
DIR By: Stumpy4
Date: February 18, 2024, 2:50 pm
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Hi, any advice for this situation would be useful thank you
I've just received a SJPN "Failing to give information relating
the identification of a driver"
They have enclosed 2 letter which they said they sent previously
asking for the disclosure of driver at the time of a traffic
incident last July. I haven't received those letters
I'm confused as the incident that happened last year was dealt
with through my insurance
My partner and Son were hit on the driver rear side by a young
driver. The driver was very apologetic and begged my husband to
not go through the insurance and as the damage wasn't really
noticeable he agreed
My son and partner did not tell me about the incident as I was
in a bad place through grieving for my late Mum
A couple weeks later my insurance company emailed me about an
incident which my partner then told me about what had happened.
My insurance accepted fault (which I did not agree with) Any way
I'm confused as to the paperwork of the police it states that
there was an incident and a "failure to stop" which is incorrect
as they stopped and exchanged numbers and pictures were taken
I'm now served with this SJPN
I'm going to plead not guilty is there any advice on how best to
handle this?
I've also just seen that the postal "town" is not on my V5C
Thank you in advance
#Post#: 15834--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: February 18, 2024, 3:16 pm
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Is the address on the letters correct?
If your family deliberately kept the matter from you, can you
think of any reason why letters posted to you were not received
by you?
#Post#: 15861--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN
DIR By: Stumpy4
Date: February 19, 2024, 1:44 am
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Thank you for your response
The Close I live on is really silly. When you enter on the right
hand side there are houses then on the left hand side there are
3 blocks of flats that share the same numbers as our houses.
The flats have different names but the same numbers as us in the
houses
So it does get confusing. Many of my orders have gone to the
flats directly opposite me down to last week one of my Amazon
parcels was delivered to the flat address
And vice versa I'm constantly receiving mail and deliveries for
the flats opposite. Even their guests knock my door believing
they are the right address.
Although it is a Close our houses have a different postcode to
the flats opposite us
When I order things I usually write a note stating it's for the
houses on the right hand side of the Close
Some delivery people bother to take note others do not
I've held my license for 20 years and never received any points.
A completely clean license. It feels so harsh and very worrying
that I'm to be punished for something I genuinely wasn't aware
of
As I mentioned before I have been diagnosed with severe
depression and anxiety I havent been coping well with the
passing of my Mother and do go through many periods where I
can't handle daily life and tasks so I don't open my letters or
do much else
I've gone through the letters that I hadn't opened and haven't
seen any letters from the police. I was in a really bad place
most of last year and spent a lot of time at my Late mums house
so whether it was delivered and got lost or I actually haven't
received the letters at all I don't know. But I do know this is
the first time I'm hearing of this situation
It all just seems so harsh and I'm not coping well with this
issue on top of everything else I just don't know what to do???
#Post#: 15863--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN
DIR By: guest46
Date: February 19, 2024, 2:45 am
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I think you're over-dramatising this?
If it was the case that the driver (who was that??) did stop and
exchange details and a claim has been made and settled (and you
have a paper trail or can get one to show this) then you stand a
very good chance of defending the charge. You need to position
it that you weren't driving, state who was (it can't be two
people!) and a narration of events. However, the non receipt of
two sets of paperwork is a bit hard to substantiate - but not so
much if there is evidence of this being a regular occurance:
This is usually done by showing some sort of (written) exchange
with the Post Office.....have you done this?
There's too many holes in the depiction of events to comment
fully - others will add things, but it is not sufficient to
plead NG and just turn up wihtout anything to upport what your
state happened: It's hard to see how the other driver was so
distraught at his/her error for invisible damage that resulted
in a claim you allowed your insurer to pay out on? You need to
review all the circumstances/facts - BUT the FtF stands either
way and is a stand-alone offence.
#Post#: 15866--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN
DIR By: Stumpy4
Date: February 19, 2024, 3:42 am
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Thank you for your response
It may seem over dramatic, but to someone who suffers with
mental health issues this is major instead of spiralling I'm
trying to deal with it head on and give all the facts that I
know
My partner was the driver at the time
I was told to post this topic here from another forum and the
main advice there was that it no longer matters who was driving
at the time of the accident it was now irrelevant because me not
disclosing who the driver was at the time is what I'm being
accused of
Are you saying this is not the case? Because yes I do have a
paper trail of it being dealt with through my insurance and the
claim now being closed
I believe the mother of the other driver went to the police
station and reported the accident to the police which is how the
police got involved (the name on the copy of the paper work
implies this)
But the information given to the police of "failing to stop
after an accident" is incorrect there are pictures to prove this
From what I recall my insurance company accepted liability
because when they first emailed me about the accident I
responded (about a week or so later) stating an error had
occurred and I was not in an accident.
When they came back to me with more details and pictures I told
my partner about it and he then told me what had happened
I went back to my insurers and explained, they said they would
accept liability due to the time it's taken and they won't be
going back and forth now with the other insurers. Because I
originally said there was no accident and took long to respond
to their emails I just accepted that I would have to allow them
to accept liability
For context: My car was hit by the other person as my partner
was driving out of a side road. The other driver hit the driver
rear side of my car
I can ask my local post office if they can write something?
The facts of what happened on the day of the accident is
information that my partner gave. I personally wouldn't have
made the decision to not go through my insurance but it is what
it is there
Sorry I dont know what an FtF is?
#Post#: 15870--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: February 19, 2024, 4:04 am
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--- Quote ---
> Sorry I dont know what an FtF is?
--- End Quote ---
“Fail to Furnish" (or provide) the driver’s details. This is
also known as a “Section 172” offence (after the section of the
Road Traffic Act which creates the offence)
--- Quote ---
> I was told to post this topic here from another forum and the
main advice there was that it no longer matters who was driving
at the time of the accident it was now irrelevant because me not
disclosing who the driver was at the time is what I'm being
accused of
>
> Are you saying this is not the case?
--- End Quote ---
No, it most certainly is the case.
--- Quote ---
> You need to position it that you weren't driving, state who
was (it can't be two people!) and a narration of events.
--- End Quote ---
The time for that is long since passed. The only issue now is
the s172 charge and how or whether to defend it. The police
cannot prosecute anybody for the signature offences (careless
driving and failing to stop/report) now anyway. If the incident
was last July they had until the corresponding date in January
to bring any charges. And in any case they could not prosecute
you for them under any circumstances as you were not driving.
If you are to defend the charge you need to build some evidence
of the problem you say exists with postal deliveries. Something
from the post office may help (though I doubt they’d be prepared
to offer anything that suggests they are delivering large
amounts of mail to the wrong addresses, especially to those with
a different postcode). Statements from your neighbours who may
have suffered similar problems perhaps. It may also help if you
provide the court with evidence that the driver’s details were
already provided and that the matter had been sorted out by your
insurers. This is strictly speaking no defence to the charge,
but you can demonstrate that nobody was disadvantaged by your
failure to respond.
#Post#: 15871--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: February 19, 2024, 4:08 am
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The underlying offence has no direct relevance. You have been
charged with failing to identify the driver. Whether the
underlying offence has legs or not is not an ingredient of the
offence you have been charged with.
The closest to any relevance is the argument that as you were
not the driver, and as the driver claims to have stopped and
exchanged details (which the other driver seemingly disputes)
you would have little reason not to comply with the s. 172
requirement if you had received it.
FtF = Fail to Furnish
#Post#: 15893--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN
DIR By: Stumpy4
Date: February 19, 2024, 10:54 am
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[quote author=andy_foster
The closest to any relevance is the argument that as you were
not the driver, and as the driver claims to have stopped and
exchanged details (which the other driver seemingly disputes)
you would have little reason not to comply with the s. 172
requirement if you had received it.
FtF = Fail to Furnish
[/quote]
Does it sound like I have a reasonable defence to defend myself?
My facts:
I didn't know about the letters (which I have to try and prove)
Maybe they were delivered but an oversight on my part. Maybe
They were unopened/lost due to dealing with grief, mental and
physical health illness
I genuinely don't know what has happened here but I wouldn't
deliberately ignore the requests
I can ask my Gp to provide medical evidence with my ongoing
issues
Does the Mental Health or Vulnerable Persons act consider the
persons mental state at the time of the alleged offence?
The matter was dealt with through my insurance and the claim is
now closed so the original allegations made by the drivers
parent are false.
I know nobody can advise me whether to plead guilty or not. I
just would like to know what the process is for both routes and
how best to navigate this situation with minimal impact on my
license and health
Sorry if this comes across "dramatic"
#Post#: 15909--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN
DIR By: guest46
Date: February 20, 2024, 1:01 am
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The process is often just a sausage machine and fine/points
applied - but not necessarily if a full hearing takes place.
It's magistrates so no-one can read (in advance) their
orientation to othe pressures at the time.
Which two routes are you referring to? In your OP you were/have
pleaded NG?
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