DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 15003--------------------------------------------------
PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: FaintPanda
Date: February 4, 2024, 3:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
[X-Post from Pepipoo]
My car was apparently parked in a Loading Only bay. It is a
standard car. The signage shows that the restrictions are from
0600hrs - 1800hrs, the ticket was issued at 1748hrs; 12 minutes
before the restrictions ended.
What is the best method of fighting this, or should the ticket
just be paid? I can appeal the ticket, which honors the discount
period.
GSV: Google Street View
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0558016,-2.7175192,3a,75y,260.16h,70.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-bcmDoB2hUBTkJdWc4n0ww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
NOTE: The restrictions sign is much lower than it shows on
Google, unsure if that makes any difference. The sign is just
above where the lamppost goes narrows.
Front of PCN
HTML https://imgur.com/Y1YRiX3.jpeg
Back of PCN
HTML https://imgur.com/79Gy93k.jpeg
I have been advised that the PCN is flawed due to not being
complaint to:
The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions
(Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
--- Quote ---
>
> CHAPTER 1
> Information to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge
notices and enforcement notices
> Information about right to make representations or appeal to
be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and
enforcement notices
> 3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the
following information—
>
> (a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in
accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the
enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those
representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;
> (b)that if, before a notice to owner is served,
representations against the penalty charge are received at such
address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those
representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;
> ©that if a notice to owner is served despite the
representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations
against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement
authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in
the notice to owner.
--- End Quote ---
Is the following enough for a informal appeal, and what are the
chances of success?
--- Quote ---
>
> Dear Hereford Council,
>
> I am appealing PCN: XXXX due to the PCN not following the
requirements stated under the Road Traffic Contraventions of
2022. Not following the mandatory requirements is a procedural
impropriety under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor
the PCN is required to be cancelled.
>
> The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1),
Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease
of reference.
>
> "that if a notice to owner is served despite the
representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations
against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement
authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in
the notice to owner."
>
> As the PCN from Hereford Council fails to confirm to this
requirement; the PCN hasn't been issued according to the correct
standards and therefor should be immediately canceled.
>
> Kind regards,
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 15004--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 4, 2024, 3:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
incorrect standards. Re chances of success: ask the SAS.
I would simply state the PCN is substantially non-compliant
because:
The PCN does not contain the following mandatory information as
stated under the Road Traffic Contraventions of 2022. Not
following the mandatory requirements is a procedural impropriety
under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor the PCN is
required to be cancelled.
The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1),
Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease
of reference.
"that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations
mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the
penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the
form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to
owner."
Please cancel.
#Post#: 15005--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 4, 2024, 3:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Needs full title of the regulations
#Post#: 15007--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: FaintPanda
Date: February 4, 2024, 3:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Oh hello there Incandescent! Thanks for your help with this on
Pepipoo! I will fire off this appeal unless there are any other
adjustments I need to make.
--- Quote ---
> Dear Hereford Council,
>
> I am appealing PCN: XXXX due to the PCN not including
mandatory information defined within the Road Traffic
Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) Regulations 2022.
Not following the mandatory requirements is a procedural
impropriety under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor
the PCN is required to be cancelled.
>
> The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1),
Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease
of reference.
>
> "that if a notice to owner is served despite the
representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations
against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement
authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in
the notice to owner."
>
> As the PCN fails to meet the mandatory requirements I kindly
request that this PCN is immediately canceled.
--- End Quote ---
@Hippo
--- Quote ---
> Re chances of success: ask the SAS.
--- End Quote ---
;D ;D ;D - I am sure they have more important things going
on than dealing with the local council!
#Post#: 15012--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 4, 2024, 4:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1227]FaintPanda[/member] don't send that, we can do
much, much better.
To understand why, have a read of these cases:
Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames
(2160271291, 26 July 2016)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QtmX9lLTLTQx6uRa9NDzJvfXcJuhzylV
Yuriy Myronovyh V The City Of Edinburgh Council (ED00154-2107,
04 October 2021)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OUYGSdtOnnkZXwyyv3pZrXjhnyjMAMbe
Robert Piatt v Manchester City Council (MC00876-2010, 15 October
2020)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XqKhehvagEzi4MgvPQZEk65cZ2VuCDDg
However before we even get to that, we want to know if a
contravention is made out, whether there's a traffic order and
so on. To that end, please give us the PCN number and the number
plate, and a link to the exact location on google street view.
#Post#: 15070--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: FaintPanda
Date: February 5, 2024, 8:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I sent it off last night :(
GSV (exact location):
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0558016,-2.7175192,3a,75y,260.16h,70.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-bcmDoB2hUBTkJdWc4n0ww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
PCN: HE53193378
REG: WN22 HVE
#Post#: 15081--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: February 5, 2024, 10:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Were you the driver? This is council land so there's no purpose
served in referring to 'driver' in the third person.
Have you looked at the photos? If it's your car, then it is.
The sign limits parking to buses and goods vehicles at specified
times. Your standard car is neither.
#Post#: 15089--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: FaintPanda
Date: February 5, 2024, 2:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1]cp8759[/member]
I was taking a read though the sources you posted, Mary
Harding's case is very similar to mine. She won on the grounds
that the PCN wasn't clear that she had parked in a loading only
bay, only that she:
--- Quote ---
> being parked in a parking place or area not designated for
that class of vehicle.
--- End Quote ---
She won because the PCN didn't contain enough information
--- Quote ---
> A motorist reading the PCN would not understand from the
wording the
> nature of the alleged contravention because there is nothing
to explain the
> class of vehicle for which the parking place was designated.
The PCN
> needs to identify, whether by wording or images, that the
class of vehicle
> for which the bay is designated is goods vehicles only.
> I therefore find that the PCN was invalid and the appeal is
allowed for that
> reason.
--- End Quote ---
I also see that Robert won on a very similar point
--- Quote ---
> I therefore find that the contravention code used was
deficient in that the suffix was not used. If the
> suffix had been used together with the words “goods vehicle
loading bays” it would have been more
> clear to the driver what he had done wrong. I therefore agree
with Mr that there was a
> procedural impropriety.
--- End Quote ---
Seems as I have ready submitted my appeal, which I suspect they
will reject, am I still in a good position to add the following
points above at the next stage?
#Post#: 15093--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 5, 2024, 4:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
All you've done so far is submit an informal challenge. These
invariably result in a Fob-Off letter. Why ? Because councils
know that if they issue such letters, most people (like over
95%), just cough-up.
#Post#: 15094--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 5, 2024, 4:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It looks like the council website won't show the photos until
you have a web code, which you get with the notice to owner. You
can raise any additional points at the next stage, so don't send
anything off without getting us to check it properly first.
I'm sure the council will reject, but in the meantime I have
ordered the traffic regulation order for the bay. Are you the
registered keeper, do you have the V5C, and is the address up to
date?
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 5
DIR Next Page