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#Post#: 14335--------------------------------------------------
Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: zeezee
Date: January 25, 2024, 7:03 pm
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Hi
The person who was driving, parked at a Lidl/farmfoods carpark
for just over 4 hours. The car was parked there in the evening
and was not for shopping.
The person tried to pay for the stay at the pay and display
machine, however, there were issues with the machine, firstly
there was no light near or coming from the machine, which made
visibility extremely difficult, and secondary the face of the
machine had been badly damaged/vandalised and it was difficult
for anyone to see the buttons and when entering the registration
of the car, it was almost impossible to see the screen, and see
that it had been registering correctly.
There were two people in front, in line to pay and they also
were having a lot of difficulty, in fact one in front said the
machine was not working properly and was out of order after he
made a few attempts. However, regardless of this, the person in
question still attempted and with a lot of difficulty put in the
car registration and swiped the bank card. However, no money was
taken having checked the statements.
Can an appeal be made here?
HTML https://i.imgur.com/tCaxALY.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/P4Z6AXx.jpeg
#Post#: 14362--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: b789
Date: January 26, 2024, 10:00 am
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Can you get or do you have any photos to show the state of the
parent machine as you described it? Can you go back and take
some photos. You will also need to show photos of the signs
under the same lighting conditions as they were at the time you
parked there. A phot of the terms and conditions signs would be
useful too.
Whilst ParkingEye tend to be fairly well run and keep to the
requirements of the BPA Code of Practice (CoP), occasionally
they fail. There are always reasons to challenge these PCNs.
Remember, they are on "fines" issued by the police or some
"authority". They are speculative invoices for an alleged breach
of contract issued by an unregulated private parking company.
There may be something in the terms that holds you bang to
rights that states that if you are unable to make payment, you
should not park and you should leave. Was there any option or
offer to pay by another method such as telephone or app? Without
seeing the signs, it is difficult to suggest how to word your
appeal. If there is only one payment machine and it was broken
or damaged, you have frustration of contract as one option.
The NtK is compliant with PoFA so they can hold you liable as
the keeper.
#Post#: 14635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: zeezee
Date: January 30, 2024, 1:10 pm
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Here are the pics...
HTML https://i.imgur.com/XJuWfCC.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/2F8aJFS.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/4c0suon.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/BC4kTBU.jpeg
#Post#: 14650--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: guest46
Date: January 31, 2024, 3:32 am
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Can't see the issue with the pay machine terminal? Has it been
repaired?
#Post#: 14690--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: zeezee
Date: January 31, 2024, 11:29 am
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Not sure, but it seems to be in much better condition.
So the appeal based on the driver issue does not go here?
#Post#: 14785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: zeezee
Date: February 1, 2024, 3:36 pm
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Would I be able to submit the following or have the rules
changed?
bearing in mind that the 28 period is nearly up...
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have just received your Notice to Keeper for the vehicle VRM
xxxxxxxx.
You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of
The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to,
failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by
section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer
liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to
me, the keeper.
There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and
I will not be doing so.
I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors,
except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this
matter and my details have been removed from your records.
#
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#Post#: 14787--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: February 1, 2024, 3:54 pm
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The 'rules' in regards to keeper liability have been the same
since 2012, but that appeal does not seem to be appropriate
here.
It's important that you understand the content of any appeal
before you send it - have you compared the requirements outlined
in section 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms
Act against the contents of your notice to see if they have in
fact failed to comply with it?
Back to the parking event itself - when did the driver attempt
to make payment, was it when they first parked up?
#Post#: 14798--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: zeezee
Date: February 1, 2024, 4:44 pm
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The driver attempted to make payment when returning to the car
park before the driver left the car park.
So is it better to pay the £100 fine at this point?
#Post#: 14850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: b789
Date: February 2, 2024, 8:31 am
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Why would you want to pay £100 when you are able to challenge
the PCN? Also, it is not a fine. You must understand that this
is just a speculative invoice from an unregulated private
parking company for an alleged breach of contract. PE are not an
"wuthority" of any sort and cannot "fine" anyone.
That appeal you posted above is not going to work. The NtK is
compliant with PoFA 2012 and so, they are able to hold the
keeper liable. n this instance, there is no point in denying you
weren't the driver, unless that is the actual case.
From the limited photos you have provided, I cannot see anywhere
on their signage that prohibits you from parking if the payment
machine is not functioning. In this case, you can claim
frustration of contract. However, it may be a little bit
difficult to prove that you didn't attempt to make payment.
Should this go to POPLA (more than likely) you would be able to
put ParkingEye to strict proof that their payment machine was
fully operational at the time you were there. You can ask them
to provide logs of the payment machines that show, at the time,
other motorists were able to make payments. If there is a
substantial gap in successful payments being made at the time
you attempted to pay, that could be evidence that the payment
machine was not functioning.
It all depends on how badly you want to fight this. If you're
prepared to just pay £100 for the easy life, then that is your
decision. If you feel aggrieved enough about losing £100 of your
hard earned money because of a fault with PEs payment machined
as there was no obligation to try and park elsewhere according
to their terms, then you can fight this on the basis that no
contract was formed.
Of course, there will be other points to put in an appeal,
especially if PE reject your initial appeal, and POPLA is more
likely to look at any points you raise such as the provision of
payment logs to which PE will be put to strict proof.
#Post#: 14970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lidl Car Park, Ilford - ParkingEye
DIR By: zeezee
Date: February 4, 2024, 9:35 am
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Appreciate your response - Thank you.
So I'll just wait now for PE's response and as you said they
will reject but essentially give us the POPLA appeal and then we
can make that appeal. Lets see how long that letter coems back
then
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