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#Post#: 14038--------------------------------------------------
Dart Charges
DIR By: Organiser
Date: January 19, 2024, 6:43 pm
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Hoping for some guidance, this is a complicated one (in my head
anyway).
I'm not from England but am currently here on a 3 year fixed
term contract and live in accommodation provided by my employer.
Here's a timeline of events -
February 2023 - created a Dart pay as you go account.
Made multiple crossings in February & March and all payments
taken automatically.
20 April 2023 - I replace my car with a newer model and register
it to the accommodation my employer has provided as I'm here for
3 years.
30 April 2023 - received an email from Dart to say they were
changing service provider and changing t&c's sometime between
June & August 2023 and that I would be notified of the exact
date prior to changeover. After changeover I would need to
change my password and revalidate my payment card.
28 June 2023 - made 1 crossing. Didn't check my account to
confirm the crossing had been paid for as have had no previous
issues.
14 July 2023 - made 1 crossing north as my employer temporarily
posts me to a different location in the north of England with an
expected return back down south in April/May 2024. Again did not
check my account to confirm payment as no previous issues.
21 July 2023 - received an email to say changeover and new t&c's
would come into force on 28 July 2023. I didn't update my
details or revalidate my card as I was up north for the next
9/10 months.
18 August 2023 - made 1 crossing south for work.
21 August 2023 - made 1 crossing back up north.
15 January 2024 - my work in the north of England is complete
and return that evening to my original accommodation in the
south to be greeted by a ridiculous amount of mail about Dart
charges. I'm tired from the long drive and it's late so go
straight to bed. (I have not been back in this accommodation
since I left on 14 July 2023).
16 January 2024 - the mail contains the following -
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 28 June,
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 14 July,
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 18 August,
1 PCN and 1 Charge certificate for 21 August.
Meanwhile I am contacted by Bristow and Sutor requesting payment
(for 28 June & 14 July) to avoid a visit from enforcement
officers. As I still haven't processed everything in my brain
yet I make the payment.
So how do I sort out this complicated situation?
Obviously I am 'Out of time'.
I was living up in north of England (I have proof of this) when
these were delivered to my original accommodation.
My pay as you go account was perfectly valid when the June/July
crossings were made (the changeover hadn't happened) so I don't
think I should have any penalties for those in the first place,
also bearing in mind I never received a PCN for either of them
and have now paid Bristow & Sutor a large sum of money.
I completely forgot to revalidate my card to allow automatic
payment for the 2 August crossings so accept I am at fault for
those but as I haven't received a PCN for the first one and that
I wasn't staying at the address when they were delivered do I
have a case?
My car is the only thing I have registered at the original
address so wouldn't be expecting any mail (besides the V5 when I
registered it) therefore no need to have my mail redirected up
north for a few months.
Any advice/guidance/forms to fill in/who to contact is greatly
appreciated.
#Post#: 14043--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charges
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 20, 2024, 3:49 am
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--- Quote ---
> 16 January 2024 - the mail contains the following -
> 1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 28 June,
> 1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 14 July,
> 1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 18 August,
> 1 PCN and 1 Charge certificate for 21 August.
--- End Quote ---
So where are the PCNs for the first three dates ? They would
have been sent to the same address.
#Post#: 14045--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charges
DIR By: Organiser
Date: January 20, 2024, 4:21 am
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I have not received PCN's for the first 3. The list I posted is
everything that was in the pile of mail that arrived when I
wasn't living there.
#Post#: 14083--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charges
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: January 21, 2024, 6:54 am
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did your account always have sufficient funds to cover the
crossings and can you evidence this ( not to us but to dart
charge
#Post#: 14093--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charges
DIR By: Organiser
Date: January 21, 2024, 10:28 am
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Yes the account always had more than sufficient funds. I have
bank statements that show previous successful payments and show
sufficient funds for all dates.
#Post#: 14094--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charges
DIR By: spaceman
Date: January 21, 2024, 11:07 am
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You haven't said whether you specifically updated your Dart
account with the new details (incl VRM) when you replaced your
vehicle on 20 April 2023
Did you?
#Post#: 14098--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charges
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 21, 2024, 11:57 am
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Spot on IMO.
OP, you're leading us in a direction of your choosing, not up
north but possibly garden path.
Pl forget about any changes in Ts and Cs on which you want us to
focus and look at your timeline again.
What was the intervening event between the last time you paid
successfully and the first time you didn't?
Made multiple crossings in February & March [2024] and all
payments taken automatically.
20 April 2023 - I replace my car with a newer model and register
it to the accommodation my employer has provided..
28 June 2023 - made 1 crossing. Didn't check my account...
...the mail contains the following -
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 28 June,
= you did not register the car as required/attach to your
account etc. etc.
You need to look behind what you did in April 2023.
But this is only half the problem. You also posted:
21 July 2023 - received an email to say changeover and new t&c's
would come into force on 28 July 2023. I didn't update my
details or revalidate my card as I was up north for the next
9/10 months.
18 August 2023 - made 1 crossing south for work.
21 August 2023 - made 1 crossing back up north.
You clearly were not 'up north for the next 9/10 months' you
made 2 crossings within a month!
So, what actually happened on 20 April and why didn't your auto
account work(you've said you had funds).
I'm putting forward the above as a plausible possibility but
only you can check your account. So far you've not made one
crossing for which you've paid since Apr 2023.
#Post#: 14103--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charges
DIR By: Organiser
Date: January 21, 2024, 12:18 pm
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[quote author=spaceman link=topic=1240.msg14094#msg14094
date=1705856829]
You haven't said whether you specifically updated your Dart
account with the new details (incl VRM) when you replaced your
vehicle on 20 April 2023
Did you?
The Dart account was updated on the day it was purchased as I
had to make a crossing after collecting from the dealer. I did
however put my own personal registration on the vehicle at the
end of May but didn't update the registration on the Dart
account. So I assume that will be why I have received the
charges for June & July. My mistake.
Do I still have any grounds for dispute when, a) I wasn't living
at the address when the charges were delivered and b) no PCN was
ever received for June & July?
#Post#: 14106--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charges
DIR By: Organiser
Date: January 21, 2024, 1:00 pm
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> OP, you're leading us in a direction of your choosing, not up
north but possibly garden path.
>
> No garden path involved only roads leading north to Manchester
>
>
> What was the intervening event between the last time you paid
successfully and the first time you didn't?
>
> The account was updated when I changed the vehicle but as I've
said on my reply to Spaceman my mistake is obviously when I
changed the original registration to my personal registration
and didn't update the account
>
>
>
> You clearly were not 'up north for the next 9/10 months' you
made 2 crossings within a month!
>
> I made two crossings for a weekend of work
meetings/conference.
>
>
>
> I'm putting forward the above as a plausible possibility but
only you can check your account. So far you've not made one
crossing for which you've paid since Apr 2023.
>
> I am not from Great Britain and am unfamiliar with the
process. I accept fault for the August charges but am simply
looking for advice/guidance as to whether I have grounds for
dispute due to not living at the address when the charges were
delivered. The account is now fully up to date but no crossings
have been made yet.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 14107--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charges
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 21, 2024, 1:21 pm
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So focus on process.
You have paid what's been demanded to date.
Check with DART what other charges are coming your way, let's
have a full picture.
What you need to do is submit what's known as 'Out of time'
applications for every PCN which you've not paid because these
would stop enforcement temporarily and buy time so we can try
and unravel these issues.
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