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#Post#: 13881--------------------------------------------------
euro car parks - Parking ticket - Rochdale road car park -
Manchester
DIR By: chi
Date: January 17, 2024, 9:06 am
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Hi i recieved a ticket from euro car parks.
i had bought a ticket in advance for two hours but it seems that
the trip to the shop took a bit longer and overstayed the time
by some 30 minutes.
please let me know if there is any way forward besides just
paying.
once again thanks so much for all your help
regards
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 13983--------------------------------------------------
Re: euro car parks - Parking ticket - Rochdale road car park -
Manchester
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: January 18, 2024, 6:22 pm
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From what you've shared so far I'm struggling to see any obvious
avenues of appeal. In terms of the contravention, it seems
pretty clear cut. The notice also seems to be compliant with
Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, so they would
be able to hold the registered keeper liable.
#Post#: 14004--------------------------------------------------
Re: euro car parks - Parking ticket - Rochdale road car park -
Manchester
DIR By: Nosy Parker
Date: January 19, 2024, 9:12 am
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If you're willing to play the long game according to the rules,
you should be able to defeat this ticket in the end. Right now,
you have to choose whether to pay the discounted price for a
quiet life or stick it out for the long game, following the
guidance on
HTML https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou/p1.
If you decide to play the long game, you will receive a stream
of increasingly shrill demands for payment, first from the
parking company and then from debt collectors, all of which you
can safely ignore. These will probably add an extra (bogus)
charge of, usually £70, and make empty threats about court
action, CCJ etc. You can safely ignore these however scary they
seem. Eventually, you will receive a letter from solicitors or
the parking company itself which will call itself a "letter of
claim", "letter before claim" "letter before action" or
something similar giving you 30 days warning of impending court
action. This will enclose a form asking for personal financial
information. You don't need to reply to this letter or complete
the forms. Court action will follow either way, but if you
reply towards the end of the 30 days saying "I dispute this
alleged debt but I am anyway taking debt advice" they must wait
another 30 days before starting proceedings.
Proceedings are started by the court office named Civil National
Business Centre (CNBC) sending you a claim form. Provided you
fight the claim following the guidance over on
HTML https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou/p1<br
/>you should be able to defeat the claim.
In the meantime, you must ensure that the parking company is
kept informed of your current address if you ever move to an
address that is different from the one to which they sent the
PCN. If you don't do that, you risk getting a CCJ because CNBC
will send the claim to your old address. To notify a change of
address, send the following email (attaching proof of your new
address such as an updated V5C vehicle registration certificate
or utility bill) to dpo@eurocarparks.com
Dear Sir or Madam,
PCN [ ] VEHICLE [ ]
I dispute this charge and intend to defend any claim initiated
in relation to it.
Please note that I no longer reside at the address shown on the
PCN and correspondence sent to me there will not reach me. I
require you to erase my former address from your records. My
new address is [ ] and I attach proof
thereof.
Yours faithfully,
You must repeat the exercise every time you move house in the
next six years.
#Post#: 14076--------------------------------------------------
Re: euro car parks - Parking ticket - Rochdale road car park -
Manchester
DIR By: b789
Date: January 20, 2024, 6:05 pm
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ECP signs are never compliant with the BPA CoP and there is a
good chance that you could defeat this either at POPLA or,
failing that, in court.
Take some pictures of the signs at the location.
Have you tried plan A yet? Have you been back to the stores
where you spent money and complained to them about how you and
everyone you know will not bother returning to spend money in
future if they can't get this speculative invoice cancelled? If
the stores use the feeble excuse that they can't do anything
about it, ask them who is the managing agent of the location and
write to them and request that they get it cancelled.
#Post#: 14142--------------------------------------------------
Re: euro car parks - Parking ticket - Rochdale road car park -
Manchester
DIR By: b789
Date: January 22, 2024, 9:33 am
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There is also a "technical" error in the PoFA wording. Whilst it
is unlikely that a POPLA assessor would consider it, a judge
might. Having discussed this with a family member who is a long
serving district judge, he agreed, that if it was raised at a
hearing he was conducting, he would take this into account in
deciding whether the NtK had been issued correctly with regards
to PoFA and if the drivers identity was unknown, the keeper
could not be liable.
In the NtK PoFA section, second paragraph, it states "you are
advised..."
PoFA 9(2)(f) states that the NtK must warn the keeper...
PoFA explicitly states that the keeper "must" be "warned" in a
Notice to Keeper. This means that the notice must use language
that clearly communicates a warning to the keeper regarding
their potential liability. If an actual Notice to Keeper
deviates from this requirement and states that the keeper is
"advised" instead of being "warned," it could raise questions
about compliance with the statutory requirements.
In a legal context, the terms "warn" and "advise" convey
different levels of obligation, emphasis, and potential
consequences. While the specific legal implications can vary
based on the jurisdiction and the wording of the relevant law,
this is a general overview:
1. **Warn:**
- A warning typically implies a stronger level of obligation
and seriousness. When a legal document or statute uses the term
"warn," it suggests that the recipient is being informed of a
potential consequence or risk that they should take seriously.
- Failure to heed a warning may result in legal consequences,
as warnings are often associated with mandatory actions or
compliance with certain requirements.
2. **Advise:**
- Advising, on the other hand, suggests a recommendation or
suggestion. When a legal document or communication advises
someone to take a certain course of action, it implies that the
action is recommended but may not be mandatory.
- Non-compliance with advice usually does not carry the same
legal consequences as failing to adhere to a warning. Advisories
provide guidance rather than imposing a strict obligation.
In the context of a NtK under PoFA, as the Act explicitly states
that the keeper "must be warned," it implies a legal requirement
for the notice to convey a sense of urgency or seriousness
regarding certain information. This could include informing the
keeper about their potential liability for an unpaid charge.
If, however, an actual NtK uses language like "advised" instead
of "warned," it might suggest a softer tone, emphasizing a
recommendation rather than a mandatory obligation. In legal
matters, the precise wording is crucial, and deviations from
statutory language may be subject to legal scrutiny.
#Post#: 14155--------------------------------------------------
Re: euro car parks - Parking ticket - Rochdale road car park -
Manchester
DIR By: chi
Date: January 22, 2024, 1:06 pm
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thank you for all your helpful advice.
i have tried option a but they didn't really care.
perhaps i may try this second option of warning vs advice
if i lose how much would i have to pay?
#Post#: 14159--------------------------------------------------
Re: euro car parks - Parking ticket - Rochdale road car park -
Manchester
DIR By: b789
Date: January 22, 2024, 1:41 pm
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What did you do for Plan A? How far up the food chain did you go
to try and get this cancelled? Don't be fobbed off by a lowly
customer service agent. Find an email address for the CEO and
fire off a complaint.
If ECP decide to progress all the way to a court claim, it may
also depend on which roboclaim solicitor they use as to whether
they will ultimately discontinue if your defence is robust
enough.
Ultimately, it would be a judge who decides whether you are in
debt to ECP. With a robust defence you stand a good chance that
you could win. It has often been the case that ECP signage is
woefully inadequate to establish a contract. Even POPLA agree on
this point if argued and evidenced properly.
If it went all the way to a claim, it would be for approximately
the £100 charge plus they scammers would try to add on the
£60-£70 double recovery fees, interest, supposedly calculated at
8% above base rate on the outstanding charge and recovery fees
from 28 days after it was due plus £35 court fee and £50 legal
fees. Here again is an opportunity to get it thrown out at a
hearing as they invariably calculate the interest incorrectly
and as it is only discretionary can be another arrow in your
bow.
Even if you were to lose a claim, it would usually be for less
than the original claim because the double recovery damages and
the interest are not allowed. So, a claim that is for around
£225-£250 ends up being £185-£200. If paid within 30 days of
judgment, there is no record of it on your credit file/history.
No CCJ.
It is invariably a stand-off by the PPC and their solicitors to
pressure you into paying into their scam. Unfortunately, the
majority of victims end up paying into it because they have
little to no idea how the civil justice system works and the
repeated mention of CCJs, bailiffs etc and an eventual county
court claim causes them to capitulate and pay up when they could
have paid less had they fought it all the way to court.
For now, you have to play the waiting game. Ignore the debt
collector letters which can be used as lining for the bottom of
a hamster cage and come back if you get a letter of claim (LoC
or LBC).
#Post#: 14169--------------------------------------------------
Re: euro car parks - Parking ticket - Rochdale road car park -
Manchester
DIR By: chi
Date: January 22, 2024, 3:59 pm
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hi regarding plan a the shop wasn't so nearby so i don't really
think they are connected
regrding fighting it i am not so familiar with all the laws
about signposts so not so sure i can do it
i think this is the carpark
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4866621,-2.2343939,3a,75y,325.56h,77.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh4H41pHwpMKqMUHRRbBOlg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
#Post#: 14172--------------------------------------------------
Re: euro car parks - Parking ticket - Rochdale road car park -
Manchester
DIR By: b789
Date: January 22, 2024, 4:44 pm
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If/when you get a claim, you defend using the template defence
that is available over on MSE forums. That defence covers most
of the issues that are likely to show that a contract was never
formed based on the lack of prominent signage and the fact that
their signs do not conform to the BPA Code of Practice.
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