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#Post#: 13819--------------------------------------------------
Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: brokenhelix
Date: January 15, 2024, 5:01 pm
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Hi all.
I got a PCN for going past a 'No Motor Vehicles' sign.
Genuinely never saw the sign, but it's there...
There is just one sign on the left. There is a warning sign
mounted to a lamppost further up the road, which is on the right
hand sign of the road. There is no other relevant signage I
could find or diversion routes, although the only way to avoid
it is to turn around or turn right into Longhurst Road (the road
on the left is a Cul de Sac)
I can see the images the council has supplied, but the video
would not load, so I haven't been able to view it.
The rear of the PCN (page 2) has a strangely worded sentence
that I'm unclear about "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge
Notice or make representations before the end of 28 days
beginning with the date this notice was served an increase
charge of notice an increased charge of £195.00 may be
payable".
It looks like they have tried to correct something but ended up
repeating themselves.
PCN Page 1:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/d7WtRhn/1000009077-01.jpg
PCN Page 2:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/s9yLwXd/1000009074-01.jpg
View 1:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/MSssqMj/leahurst-near2.jpg
View 2:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/2M3GJMh/leahurst-near1.jpg
View 3:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/5BhBj7f/leahurst-far2.jpg
View 4:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/kycFJK2/leahurst-far1.jpg
Warning Sign:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/r7NPq2M/leahurst-warning-rhs.jpg
Rear View (double signs):
HTML https://i.ibb.co/nPgBncV/leahurst-rear-view.jpg
If there is anything else I can provide, please let me know and
many thanks for your time!
#Post#: 13822--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 15, 2024, 5:14 pm
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Totally inadequate signage. The advance warning is not a traffic
sign and is anyway positioned badly, and there is no way out of
the trap if you even see the single sign. I would have no
hesitation in taking this to London Tribunals, but it's your
money, because if you go to LT, the discount option is lost.
#Post#: 13825--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: brokenhelix
Date: January 15, 2024, 5:43 pm
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Thank you for the reply. Greatly appreciated.
I'm more than happy to try my best not to give them any money,
because otherwise they're simply going to continue enforcing a
restriction which I think is unfair and ineffective at
preventing the traffic it is supposed to deter.
I also have another one from Christmas eve, at the same section,
in the dark.
Unfortunately, the notice for that arrived 3 days after going
through it again. I made representations asking for leniency,
as we haven't had any warnings or pcns before, but I suspect the
reply that's on the way for that one is a rejection.
Is there a chance that the wording I mentioned and the lack of a
postal address for payment (I was reading something about that)
may make it invalid too?
#Post#: 13828--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 15, 2024, 5:57 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Is there a chance that the wording I mentioned and the lack of
a postal address for payment (I was reading something about
that) may make it invalid too?
--- End Quote ---
Well, if you're going to London Tribunals you always use all
your ammunition, so include it. An adjudicator will only decide
on what is in front of him.
#Post#: 13829--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: brokenhelix
Date: January 15, 2024, 7:17 pm
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Thank you.
Just one more question. Does the owner have to attend the
appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators, or can a
representative make the case (ie me, the driver of my wife's
car)?
Because, if it's her, I'm guessing she'd rather just pay the
fine. Whereas I have more time and fight :)
#Post#: 13831--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: January 16, 2024, 2:59 am
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You can act on here behalf but would need written authority. I
am not so sure of your chances at the end of the day the
restriction signs are clear, there might be a case to be made re
confusion with the 7.5 tonne signs if argued well
The wording is fine and reflects the poor drafting of the
regulations
The address issue has been won as i recall only once but has
lost on a few occasions so again would need arguing well to have
a chance
IMO chances are 50/50 at best
#Post#: 13837--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: brokenhelix
Date: January 16, 2024, 4:54 am
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Thank you for the input.
At 50/50, I might give it a miss. Can't really afford the
higher fines and I've already spent about a week looking at
endless legislation and adjudications.
This is a fairly new alteration to the site.
There was a width restriction with gate in the middle.
They put planters in the width restrictions at first (during
COVID).
Then opened the gate in the middle with a camera.
Recently they changed it again the to raised crossing point.
It's all quite sneaky, as you go around that corner and there is
another one. The road ahead of the bend is one way and the only
other turn off has a school street.
Entirely possible to get several fines in quick succession.
#Post#: 16118--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 23, 2024, 7:09 am
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1. You have not shown us all the PCN.
2. The problem with citing other cases is that you do not know
exactly what was argued and how.
philou is giving it a go.
#Post#: 16713--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: March 3, 2024, 6:42 am
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Well, some perhaps novel points to be raised re the wording.
"Acts as a Notice to Owner".
#Post#: 16796--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
DIR By: philou
Date: March 4, 2024, 3:36 pm
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> 1. You have not shown us all the PCN.
>
> 2. The problem with citing other cases is that you do not
know exactly what was argued and how.
>
> philou is giving it a go.
>
--- End Quote ---
Correct! I am. Signage was definitely inadequate in my view as
well as, I also missed out the blue signage on the RHS of the
road. I concur that the layout of Leahurst has been changed
multiple times in the last 5 years and it's currently more
confusing than ever!
Hearing is towards the end of this month!
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