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       #Post#: 13741--------------------------------------------------
       31J - entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
       Peartree way, Greenwich
   DIR By: henz
       Date: January 14, 2024, 7:23 am
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       Hey all,
       I saw the same offense take place from the other post and would
       like to add that I had the same PCN issued to me on the 29th
       June 2023 and failed to win my appeal via a London Tribunals
       adjudicator in Nov of 2023. If details are requested for this I
       am happy to provide but the main reason why I was denied my
       appeal is because I entered the box junction onto stationary
       vehicles (even though there was plenty of room in front of the
       stationary vehicle).
       Anyways I am here because we have again (my Dad this time) been
       caught by the same camera and after finding and reading this
       post this time around I would love to hear from you guys on what
       you think and if there are grounds for me to appeal here. Please
       find attached video evidence.
       The car to the right in the other lane also cuts in a little
       where space was present. The way I see it is there is space for
       the car to exit on the other end but it just took a couple secs
       of stopping in between that triggered the happy snapping camera.
       What the footage does not capture is the space being filled and
       box junction being cleared before the crossing traffic starts
       moving. Also, does my video also start late where I'm just
       inside the box junction therefore the argument that @cp87699
       made applies?
       Would love to hear from you guys ASAP as letter came in only
       yesterday.
       Thanks
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 13742--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 31J - entering and stopping in a box junction when
       prohibited Peartree way, Greenwich
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: January 14, 2024, 7:47 am
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       Asa usual, have a read of
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
       abd post up all sides of the PCN (only redact name & address -
       leave everything else in),
       a GSV link to location,
       and obtain and post up the video (it's the only evidence}'
       #Post#: 13757--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 31J - entering and stopping in a box junction when
       prohibited Peartree way, Greenwich
   DIR By: henz
       Date: January 14, 2024, 3:59 pm
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       Hi there, please see PCN attached and Google SV location:
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/FgVNcAH4ksJkUstB8
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 13762--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 31J - entering and stopping in a box junction when
       prohibited Peartree way, Greenwich
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: January 14, 2024, 4:44 pm
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       The offence occurs on entry, and here there was a space on the
       other side, although I do have my doubts that your father's
       rather large vehicle would have fitted into it. In fact your
       father stopped quite short of the red car, thus intruding into
       the box at the rear. I'm not sure whether the sneaky little
       black car pinched the space, because your father made no move
       towards that space.
       I have to say, I don't think this is a guaranteed win at all as
       I don't think your father's car would have been able to clear
       the box even if he'd moved further forward than he did, but see
       what the others say.
       #Post#: 13763--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 31J - entering and stopping in a box junction when
       prohibited Peartree way, Greenwich
   DIR By: henz
       Date: January 14, 2024, 6:02 pm
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       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > The offence occurs on entry, and here there was a space on the
       other side, although I do have my doubts that your father's
       rather large vehicle would have fitted into it. In fact your
       father stopped quite short of the red car, thus intruding into
       the box at the rear. I'm not sure whether the sneaky little
       black car pinched the space, because your father made no move
       towards that space.
       > I have to say, I don't think this is a guaranteed win at all
       as I don't think your father's car would have been able to clear
       the box even if he'd moved further forward than he did, but see
       what the others say.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I think he does slowly and eventually makes it across and into
       the space but the video evidence gets cut short, at least that
       is what he remembers.
       Thanks for your response I will also be waiting for others and
       [member=43]MrChips[/member] to respond.
       #Post#: 13765--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 31J - entering and stopping in a box junction when
       prohibited Peartree way, Greenwich
   DIR By: MrChips
       Date: January 15, 2024, 2:43 am
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       Morning all.
       I'm of a slightly different view to Incandescent.  The test is
       at the point of entry, and there was space for your father's car
       then assuming he was looking to bend slightly to the right and
       reach the space at a bit of an angle rather than head across to
       pull up directly behind the red car.  Indeed it's the space the
       black car decided to zoom forward and pinch from under his nose
       as that driver suddenly realised he'd exercised poor judgement
       and was about to get trapped in the box himself!
       At about 3 to 4 seconds into the video, you can see your
       father's car begin to turn slightly to the right as if about to
       coast into that space, only to have to abort when the black car
       comes from behind and into your father's peripheral vision.  In
       my view, it's the other driver which entered the box when the
       exit was not clear, rather than your father.
       Another way of potentially arguing it, if your father was aiming
       for that space, is that he stopped not due to stationary
       vehicles but due to that moving black car cutting him up.
       If you pause the video at about 7 seconds in, and pretend that
       the black car did not cross the box, I think it's hard to say
       that there wasn't space for your father's car, or indeed that he
       would not likely have simply manoeuvred his car a little more to
       the right to avoid the rear of his car sticking out into the box
       junction.
       #Post#: 13768--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 31J - entering and stopping in a box junction when
       prohibited Peartree way, Greenwich
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: January 15, 2024, 3:57 am
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       The TWOC ground limits to theft.
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