DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 13706--------------------------------------------------
Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: confused-z
Date: January 13, 2024, 5:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear Forum,
A driver regularly attends the Edmonton Mosque on Friday's for
the Muslim Friday Prayers. For other Muslim Prayers, the driver
usually attends the local Mosque so only attends the Edmonton
Mosque for the larger prayer events. Around the Edmonton Mosque,
the roads have a parking restriction only on event days as the
area is near the Tottenham Football Stadium where the event days
are when there are football matches or other events (like NFL or
music concerts) held in this stadium. During an event day, the
parking restrictions are from 12pm till 9pm.
Usually there is no event days on a Friday, so when the driver
attends the Edmonton Mosque, they usually park in the restricted
area without any worry. There are no signs around the area to
indicate when an event day is occurring so the driver must take
their own initiative to go on the internet to check if there is
an event at the stadium. In contrast to the roads near the
Arsenal Stadium which also have similar parking restrictions,
when there is an event at the Arsenal Stadium, there is a sign
near the parking restriction sign to say that 'Today is an event
day' so drivers don't need to figure out by themselves if the
restrictions are being enforced on that day or not.
On the 5th Jan 2024, a driver parked on Raynham Avenue, N18, at
1pm to attend the Edmonton Mosque for the Friday prayers. The
driver was unaware that there was a football match due at
Tottenham Stadium later that evening (at 8pm, so 7 hours later).
When the driver returned from the Friday Prayers the driver
found a PCN on the windshield of the vehicle. Is there any
chance of successfully appealing this PCN from the information
provided thus far?
The PCN is as follows:
<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en"
data-id="a/vPKX3PU" data-context="false" ><a
href="//imgur.com/a/vPKX3PU">Enfield PCN
Front</a></blockquote><script async
src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
From Google Maps, here is a street view with the parking
restriction sign.
<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en"
data-id="a/zNE5PbD" data-context="false" ><a
href="//imgur.com/a/zNE5PbD"></a></blockquote><script async
src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
#Post#: 13707--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: confused-z
Date: January 13, 2024, 5:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if the images are coming through, but here is a link to
the images.
Parking Restriction signs:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/zNE5PbD
PCN:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/vPKX3PU
#Post#: 13725--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 13, 2024, 1:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: confused-z link ---
>
> Not sure if the images are coming through, but here is a link
to the images.
>
> Parking Restriction signs:
>
HTML https://imgur.com/a/zNE5PbD
>
> PCN:
>
HTML https://imgur.com/a/vPKX3PU
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, but the next event day is supposed to be displayed on the
entry to th e zone where event day restrictions are imposed. So
you need to find out where the zone boundaries are, and get a
photo of the sign. They have a legal duty to display the event
days on the zone entry signs. They cannot say "it's all on our
website". If that is what they are saying you should take them
to London Tribunals where you will win.
#Post#: 13729--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: January 13, 2024, 1:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
As per Mr Mustard's knowledge and experience, the PCN contains a
fatal procedural impropriety. 2230448785
The PCN itself contains a procedural error that invalidates it.
Schedule 2 paragraph 2 states
(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28
days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention
occurred,
However, the PCN I received states that payment is due within 28
days from the date of service, not the date of the alleged
contravention. This discrepancy constitutes a procedural
impropriety that renders the PCN invalid.
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2
#Post#: 13734--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: BigBazz45
Date: January 13, 2024, 7:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Yes, but the next event day is supposed to be displayed on the
entry to th e zone where event day restrictions are imposed. So
you need to find out where the zone boundaries are, and get a
photo of the sign. They have a legal duty to display the event
days on the zone entry signs. They cannot say "it's all on our
website". If that is what they are saying you should take them
to London Tribunals where you will win.
>
--- End Quote ---
We don't know which direction the OP approached Raynham Avenue
from, but GSV shows zone entry signs on both sides of Fore
Street at its junction with the A406, complete with "Next event
day" plate:
[URL=
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/skRRtk2zSmL1EFmV8]https://maps.app.goo.gl/skRRtk2zSmL1EFmV8[/url]
Approaching from the Tottenham direction, there are signs on
both sides of the road at the boundary with LB of Haringey:
And approaching from the Westbound North Circular Road and using
a series of back streets:
[URL=
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/WZTxkLgVFxe5JUKMA]https://maps.app.goo.gl/WZTxkLgVFxe5JUKMA
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/uYmG3RYGQU6fuNBf6[/url
I'm only aware of one occasion where they forgot to update a
couple of the signs, resulting in me getting a PCN. Fortunately
they cancelled at the informal reps stage upon being presented
with the evidence.
#Post#: 13740--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: January 14, 2024, 7:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP: do you realise the importance of the information I provided
re the PCN?
#Post#: 13838--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: confused-z
Date: January 16, 2024, 5:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BigBazz45 link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=1205.msg13725#msg13725
date=1705174746]
> Yes, but the next event day is supposed to be displayed on the
entry to th e zone where event day restrictions are imposed. So
you need to find out where the zone boundaries are, and get a
photo of the sign. They have a legal duty to display the event
days on the zone entry signs. They cannot say "it's all on our
website". If that is what they are saying you should take them
to London Tribunals where you will win.
>
--- End Quote ---
We don't know which direction the OP approached Raynham Avenue
from, but GSV shows zone entry signs on both sides of Fore
Street at its junction with the A406, complete with "Next event
day" plate:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/skRRtk2zSmL1EFmV8
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/skRRtk2zSmL1EFmV8
Approaching from the Tottenham direction, there are signs on
both sides of the road at the boundary with LB of Haringey:
And approaching from the Westbound North Circular Road and using
a series of back streets:
[url=
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/WZTxkLgVFxe5JUKMA]https://maps.app.goo.gl/WZTxkLgVFxe5JUKMA
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/uYmG3RYGQU6fuNBf6[/url
I'm only aware of one occasion where they forgot to update a
couple of the signs, resulting in me getting a PCN. Fortunately
they cancelled at the informal reps stage upon being presented
with the evidence.
[/quote]
So the driver went around the back from Tesco Lea Valley to
Raynham Avenue. The exact path is as follows:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/CpSyOdz.png
HTML https://imgur.com/a/EKQNf0O
The event day restriction zones starts from when you leave
Leeside Road at the roundabout and go to any of the 3 exit
roads, such as Dysons Road which the driver did. Looking at
Google Maps Street View, there does not seem to be any signs
mentioning when the next event day is at this roundabout
junction so is it worth driving down there again to get some
pictures to see what is what in terms of signs that should be
there?
#Post#: 13840--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: confused-z
Date: January 16, 2024, 5:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> As per Mr Mustard's knowledge and experience, the PCN contains
a fatal procedural impropriety. 2230448785
>
>
> The PCN itself contains a procedural error that invalidates
it. Schedule 2 paragraph 2 states
> (d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of
28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged
contravention occurred,
>
> However, the PCN I received states that payment is due within
28 days from the date of service, not the date of the alleged
contravention. This discrepancy constitutes a procedural
impropriety that renders the PCN invalid.
>
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry for my stupidity but I didn't understand this response
fully. On the PCN that the driver received, the wording seems to
match like for like to Schedule 2 of the legislation that was
provided so I can't see the error that makes this PCN invalid.
Am I not seeing this correctly? Sorry again if I'm being thick.
#Post#: 13841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: confused-z
Date: January 16, 2024, 5:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
For ease, here is the PCN again in the correct format for the
forum.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/fTNbtC9.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/iJde8Q4.jpg
#Post#: 13938--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
DIR By: confused-z
Date: January 18, 2024, 6:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry if I sound like I'm being pushy, but I'm just conscious
that the 14 day timeframe to pay or appeal whilst keeping the
50% discounted fee is due by tomorrow and I'm not clear on if
there is any grounds to appeal for this particular PCN. Please
let me know what I can do as the PCN seems correctly worded but
I don't recall seeing any sign's noting a event day when I
entered the area with the event day parking restrictions.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 3
DIR Next Page