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#Post#: 130384--------------------------------------------------
Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding incident)
and taking it to court
DIR By: skelligs123
Date: September 14, 2026, 6:43 am
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Hi there.
I currently have 3 points on my license (expiring July 2027). I
have also attended a speed awareness course
I recently received 2 NIPs (1 minute apart and travelling in the
same direction of travel, as best I can tell) as follows:
1. 35 in 30mph @ 19:19 on A47 King Richards Road (Westbound),
Leicester - camera 1240
2. 36 in 30mph @ 19:20 on A47 Hinckley Road / Wyngate Drive,
Leicester - camera 1257
I have tried to view the video/photo evidence on their website
but nothing appears. I am not contesting the offences - just
that it was a single offence, measured twice.
I have written to Leicestershire Police asking for them to
consider this as a single continuous speeding incident. They
responded with a brief "I am unable to intervene in the process
for this matter". I appreciate that the decision to treat as a
single continuous offence lies with the court, though the police
force could exercise some discretion. I have also written to
them asking for copies of the video/photo evidence.
So, my questions:
1. If they are unable to find video/photo evidence, is this
likely to be dropped (before or at court)?
2. Assuming that they are not dropped, what's the best approach?
If I go to court to ask the magistrate to treat the two as a
single offence, and even if I am successful, I will probably end
up paying a much bigger fine than the £100 fixed penalty (but
saves me the anxiety of driving around with 9 points until July
next year). Do I need to contest the charge/plead guilty in
this scenario?
3. Can someone recommend a good solicitor (ideally one in
Leicester) who does this type of thing with their eyes closed?
Thanks,
Skellig
#Post#: 130387--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding
incident) and taking it to court
DIR By: DrSatan
Date: September 14, 2026, 7:11 am
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Those cameras are 875m apart. At a continuous 35mph, that would
take you 56 seconds to travel, which would match your narrative.
Suppose, however, that you did 375m at 35mph, dropped to 28mph
for 300m, and then sped back up to 36mph for the last 275m of
the gap. That would take you 65 seconds, which would still show
as a one minute gap on the NIPs, but would be two separate
offences.
What I'm getting at is: Are you quite sure you never dropped
below 30mph? Do the NIPs specify the number of seconds into each
minute each picture was taken at? Because 19:19 and 19:20 are
one minute apart, but (for example) 19:19.01 and 19:20:29 will
also show one minute when rounded but would prove you did 2
offences.
#Post#: 130388--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding
incident) and taking it to court
DIR By: skelligs123
Date: September 14, 2026, 7:31 am
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Thanks Dr Satan
No - the NIPs dont include seconds and I dont have photos with
timestamps either.
Out of interest, are you saying that, had I dropped below 30mph
during the 1 min period, it would make a difference to the
court's determination? Or are you just trying to validate the
distance travelled?
Thanks,
Flann
#Post#: 130390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding
incident) and taking it to court
DIR By: 666
Date: September 14, 2026, 7:59 am
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OP, the police are not obliged to provide you with any evidence
at this stage. If they do not, it will be disclosed before you
go to court.
#Post#: 130391--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding
incident) and taking it to court
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: September 14, 2026, 8:01 am
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In brief:
If your speed didn't drop below the limit between the two
cameras then a single offence - one fine, one set of points.
If your speed did drop below the limit between the two cameras,
then two offences committed on the same occasion - two fines but
one set of points.
#Post#: 130392--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding
incident) and taking it to court
DIR By: skelligs123
Date: September 14, 2026, 8:04 am
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--- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
>
> In brief:
>
> If your speed didn't drop below the limit between the two
cameras then a single offence - one fine, one set of points.
>
> If your speed did drop below the limit between the two
cameras, then two offences committed on the same occasion - two
fines but one set of points.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ah, thanks. That makes sense in theory but how we I or they
prove that the speed had/hadnt dropped below the 30 mark without
a 3rd camera in the middle (which likely would not have fired in
that scenario)? Or are the camera systems more intelligent than
that now?
#Post#: 130393--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding
incident) and taking it to court
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: September 14, 2026, 8:05 am
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Logically, speeding must be a continuous offence insofar as it
is impossible to exceed the speed limit instantaneously. The
logical argument would then be that if you were exceeding the
speed limit for 1 metre, 100 metres, a mile, or 10 miles, that
would only be a single continuous offence - regardless of how
many separate witnesses or cameras saw you do it. Arguably, if
you were to continuously exceed the speed limit going from an
ordinary road to a motorway, or vice versa, that would/could
constitute 2 separate offences as the offences are created by
different legislative provisions.
Logically, to argue that being caught twice whilst continuously
exceeding the same contiguous speed limit somehow constituted 2
separate offences because you were caught twice would require
some logical argument that elements of the same continuous
offence somehow constituted separate offences.
There is an obiter (throw-away, or not binding) comment in some
High Court judgement to the effect that it cannot be right that
a driver, having been caught speeding at the start of a journey
would then effectively have a free pass to continue speeding for
the rest of his journey - but that somewhat unlearned comment
from an otherwise learned judge not only seeks to ignore the
principles of duplicity and continuous offences, it ignores that
(unless the police are too lazy to do any proper police work,
and issue fixed penalties like confetti), exceeding the speed
limit continuously for say 100 miles would be an aggravating
factor to that offence - meaning that the driver would not in
effect have a free pass.
Logically, it would be somewhat harder to argue that you cannot
be prosecuted twice for the same continuous offence if the court
are not satisfied that it was a single continuous offence. As a
general rule, the prosecution's burden of proof is "beyond any
reasonable doubt", and the defence's burden of proof is "on the
balance of probabilities".
The fact that the website does not show you the money shot does
not mean that the police do not have it. If you were caught by a
camera and the police do not have the photo(s), logically they
must have a very effective Ouija board in order to issue the
NIP.
If you dispose of criminal liability for an offence by accepting
a fixed penalty, you cannot subsequently [lawfully] be
prosecuted for that offence (S. 78(2) RTOA 1988
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/78).
The
cheapest way out - assuming that you can persuade the court, on
the balance of probabilities that it was a single continuous
offence, would be to accept a fixed penalty for one the the
"instances", and then defend the other on the basis that the
prosecution is an abuse of process/statute barred.
Please do not ask us what an unknown bench on an unknown day
will decide.
#Post#: 130400--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding
incident) and taking it to court
DIR By: skelligs123
Date: September 14, 2026, 9:00 am
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Thank you for the brilliant (and entertaining - I'm left with
the confetti image!) summary.
Practically then, I think I'll wait until I get a response to my
question to the police about the photo evidence (I totally agree
with your 'Ouija board' comment) and if they decide to cancel
both tickets (very unlikely) then I dont need to do anything.
In the scenario you propose, I'd just accept the conditional
offer of fixed penalty on the first of the two (19:19 timestamp)
and then request to appear at the magistrate's court to argue
that the 2nd one is dropped based on the continuous incident.
Is there any way of progressing the second case by way of
correspondance, without actually attending the court?
If the magistrate agrees that it should be treated as a single
offence - will I still in that scenario have to pay a fine
(having already paid the £100 fixed penalty fee on the other
notice), court + surcharge?
Interestingly, when I spoke with the Road Safety Team at
Leicestershire just now (to my surprise, a very friendly and
helpful bunch) they said that the reason they rejected my
request for it to be treated as a single incident is because
I've attended a speed awareness course in the last 3 years. I
think their logic is that they should reserve that discretion to
drivers with no blemishes on their record. As you say, they are
under no obligation to deal with that in the police force anyway
- it naturally sits with the magistrate.
#Post#: 130403--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding
incident) and taking it to court
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: September 14, 2026, 10:02 am
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--- Quote from: skelligs123 link ---
>
> Thank you for the brilliant ... summary.
--- End Quote ---
If it was a brilliant summary, why do you feel the need to ask
questions that have already been addressed?
#Post#: 130409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on two speed cameras (one continuous speeding
incident) and taking it to court
DIR By: skelligs123
Date: September 14, 2026, 10:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Andy.
I dont think the follow-on question was answered earlier (unless
I missed it)
I probably didnt word it very clearly. So the scenario I'm
trying to understand is:
1. I've closed off the first offence as a Fixed Penalty and paid
the penalty fee
2. Then I go to the magistrate's court and she/he agrees that
both should have been treated as a single offence.
3. The 2nd offence then falls away
4. I leave the court without (a) paying court fees, (b) paying
any fine (calculated as a % of monthly salary) and (c) receiving
the additional points on my license.
Is point 4 correct?
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