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#Post#: 13585--------------------------------------------------
Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: Felics
Date: January 11, 2024, 6:18 am
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Hello,
I've received a PCN. YouTube link as follows
HTML https://youtu.be/C8ddMG6V_G4
I am the white SUV that stops at the top of the box junction.
The contravention states that I am "entering and stopping in a
box junction".
PCN details are as follows:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/eHzc9w0.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/VcNdeHa.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/MQzwNPp.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/L6Oy2tk.jpg
I represented with the following:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/QHPULUP.jpg
This was based on a number of cases that I saw on Pepipoo or
FTLA.
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t149826.html
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/yellow-box-ticket/15/
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t150070.html
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t149002.html
Received a rejection yesterday:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/hngz9Le.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/KdAx8En.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/6oT2TNp.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/egnOkdC.jpg
My question is whether I should pay the reduced fine still.
It seems that some of the above cases I referenced are still
ongoing so it may depend on them.
Happy to hear thoughts.
#Post#: 13587--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 11, 2024, 6:30 am
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Your Para 2 or your reps (conflation of payment and appeal time
periods is now pretty much a dead duck, and adjudicators won't
cancel a PCN on it. This is probably because the Act under
which the PCN is issued is flawed, as it defines a two different
periods, one for payment and one for representations.
Your first point can win, but it's not a slam-dunk appeal, but
see what the "terriers" on here say. They may be short of rats
to chase at the moment !
#Post#: 13591--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: January 11, 2024, 7:31 am
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Should have mentioned the TWOC ground.
HTML https://bit.ly/3N6Dy7a
#Post#: 13593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: Felics
Date: January 11, 2024, 7:40 am
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Should have mentioned the TWOC ground.
>
>
HTML https://bit.ly/3N6Dy7a
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry, what is TWOC?
The appeal you've linked - don't I sufficiently describe this in
point 1 of my first appeal? Or do you mean I should have cited
the specific case? If so, is it worth citing this in my next
appeal?
#Post#: 13607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 11, 2024, 12:01 pm
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TWOC = Taken Without Owners Consent
#Post#: 13616--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: MrChips
Date: January 11, 2024, 3:55 pm
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Wasn't the contravention in High Road rather than Goodmayes
Road?
High Road is in excess of 3 miles long with at least 3 box
junctions along it. I think it's a bit rich for Redbridge to
insist you traverse over 3 miles checking against the
surroundings on their video in the process.
#Post#: 13617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: Felics
Date: January 11, 2024, 4:09 pm
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Ah yes!
I've just reread and the PCN says High Road, Goodmayes. Not
Goodmayes Road! It was a late night oversight by me.
I've also counted three box junctions along this stretch (the
A118 I believe).
Is it worth appealing and representing this fact?
#Post#: 13619--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: MrChips
Date: January 11, 2024, 4:47 pm
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A similar argument has been successful at tribunal before, e.g.
Case Details
Case reference
Appellant
Authority
VRM
PCN Details
PCN
Contravention date
Contravention time
Contravention location
Penalty amount
Contravention
Referral date
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Appeal decision
Direction
Reasons
The Appellant was represented by Mr Dishman. The grounds of
Appeal are set out in Mr Dishman’s skeleton argument which he
developed before me. Having considered the matter carefully it
seems to me that at least one of the grounds of appeal has some
merit. The location is described as Goodmayes Road; however Mr
Dishman tells me, and I accept, that there are three box
junctions in Goodmayes Road. |The PCN is required to set out the
grounds on which a penalty is demanded, and this inevitably
includes a clear statement of the location of the alleged
contravention. Although it might be possible for a motorist to
trace the location from the photographs with some effort the
Council’s prior duty is to set it out clearly. There seems to me
no good reason why the location could not simply be stated as
Goodmayes road junction with (naming the adjacent road) as would
routinely be done in the case of a road traffic summons in the
Magistrates Court. As the PCN was defective no penalty may be
demanded on the basis of it and the Appeal ids allowed
#Post#: 13620--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: Felics
Date: January 11, 2024, 5:22 pm
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Thank you. I will have a look at this a little more tomorrow.
I may need a little guidance on what to put in the paper appeal
form when I have look.
#Post#: 13676--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction, High
Road Goodmayes 31j
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: January 12, 2024, 1:35 pm
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If you want to go to the tribunal, I am happy to represent you.
Meanwhile:
1. Contravention did not occur
2. I rely upon my formal representations and will make further
submissions when I receive the council's evidence pack.
3. Personal hearing: you can attend by phone, representative
in person.
4. Contact by e mail.
PM me if you wish to take up the offer.
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