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#Post#: 129747--------------------------------------------------
DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/H
DIR By: shucks
Date: September 6, 2026, 7:45 pm
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DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition on certain types of vehicle, South St RM1/Eastern Rd
RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/Havana Close (PCN 2)
I went to pick up a friend from Romford Station and drove north
up South St. After the station I was caught on two cameras just
twenty-one seconds apart. Havering Council has sent a separate
PCN for each camera for 'failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain types of vehicle'.
The first camera (PCN 1) was at the junction of South St and
Eastern Rd where the only prohibition sign is for no right turn;
the only permissible route is straight ahead, which is the route
I took.
The second camera (PCN 2) was at the junction of South St and
Havana Close where there is just a single sign regarding the
prohibition of cars. It is butted up against another sign which
has an arrow pointing to the left and so, in the brief moment
available to decipher it, I read the two signs as being related
and that the car prohibition sign corresponded to the road on
the left. I, therefore, drove straight ahead. The Traffic
Signs Manual 2018, Para. 6.3.5 makes recommendations for
separation between signs for clarity when they are not related.
I appealed both PCNs on the grounds that a) they should not
issue two separate fines for what is, essentially, a single
contravention and b) that the road signage was confusing. The
council rejected both appeals and removed the 50% early payment
discounts.
I requested a phone number to speak with a human since I wanted
more clarity but the council said they only allow communication
by email. I emailed enquiring about their grounds for issuing
two fines for a single offence; their response did not address
my question. I offered to settle immediately to avoid going to
a tribunal if they would honour the 50% discount on the first
PCN and cancel the second PCN. They responded that I hadn't
"supplied any mitigating circumstances to close either case or
re offer the discount".
I believe the council's communication has been inadequate
because they have not addressed my requests for information and
because they have taken days to reply to emails, allowing no
speedier or more direct option of communication. These factors
have led to a lack of transparency around the legitimacy of the
PCNs and to delays which have contributed to the expiration of
the 50% discount.
Further to the above, based on the camera image the council
supplied, it seems that the location of the first camera (South
St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 according to the PCN letter) might be
incorrect.
I would be grateful for your advice about how to proceed,
please, and what arguments I should make if I go to a tribunal.
Location of the two PCNs:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/aZ1QhSGPkX11f7c99
PCN letters:-
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.15%20(1).jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.11.jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.16%20(2).jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.11%20(1).jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.16%20(3).jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.15.jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.10.jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.16.jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.11%20(2).jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.16%20(1).jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.13.jpeg
HTML http://file:///Users/studio/Downloads/WhatsApp%20Image%202026-08-28%20at%2018.10.16%20(4).jpeg
#Post#: 129748--------------------------------------------------
Re: DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/
DIR By: shucks
Date: September 6, 2026, 7:50 pm
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It seems the 'insert an image' function didn't work so here are
the links...
*update: will try again*
#Post#: 129749--------------------------------------------------
Re: DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 7, 2026, 12:55 am
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--- Quote from: shucks link ---
>
> It seems the 'insert an image' function didn't work so here
are the links...
>
>
--- End Quote ---
None of your 'links' above is in fact a link.
For guidance on posting images see
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/
#Post#: 129753--------------------------------------------------
Re: DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 7, 2026, 3:10 am
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Havering don't re-offer the discount, being a ruthless, venal,
and rapacious council, one of the worst in London, so your next
move is to register an appeal at London Tribunals. This is a
total no-brainer because the penalty remains the same and there
are no additional costs at all.
#Post#: 129757--------------------------------------------------
Re: DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/
DIR By: shucks
Date: September 7, 2026, 4:03 am
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*attempt #2*
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/TfmuDzh_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/F7drebF_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/BCac7iv_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/okfi8i6_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/ligwc6b_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/VVK6va4_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/YpcIxk5_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/E4SHFBO_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/Pk7iAmo_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/QNREdtI_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/pTWTQHh_xl.webp
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/u0EsyNp_xl.webp
#Post#: 129762--------------------------------------------------
Re: DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/
DIR By: shucks
Date: September 7, 2026, 4:37 am
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*New information*
I emailed my councillor and he responded with the following. "I
have looked at this one before and what the council informed me
was that the first PCN was issued for driving along South street
past the station. What they say is the driver then has an option
to turn left into Havana Way, but continue along into South
street which why a second PCN was issued, If you had turned left
into Havana Way the second PCN would not of been issued."
(Presumably he means Havana Close rather than Havana Way.)
I have two issues with this regarding the first PCN:-
1) I was accessing the station. All the signs I can see around
the station which prohibit cars say 'except for access' - since
I was accessing the station then surely travel along that
stretch of road was permitted.
2) The location of the first PCN, according to the PCN letter,
is not near any prohibition signs. The PCN location is north of
the station while the aforementioned signs are south of the
station. (Here is a map to illustrate:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/qptdPvaadpa7XAGX9)
Regarding the second PCN, I maintain that the signage could be
clearer. It could also be reinforced rather than just a single
sign.
#Post#: 129763--------------------------------------------------
Re: DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 7, 2026, 4:47 am
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We've seen this location a few times now, and appeals at London
Tribunals have been won. As there is no discount you should now
register appeal at London Tribunals
#Post#: 129764--------------------------------------------------
Re: DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/
DIR By: shucks
Date: September 7, 2026, 5:11 am
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Thank you for your reply - and do you have any advice on what
are my strongest arguments are likely to be when I appeal,
please?
for example... regarding PCN 1:-
- I had a right to use that road since I was accessing the
station
- there is no evidence of prohibiting signage in the photos or
videos the council has provided
- this PCN is within twenty one seconds of another PCN along the
same road so they should be counted as a singular infraction
deserving only one fine
regarding PCN 2:-
- the signage is insufficient and confusing
- this PCN is within twenty one seconds of another PCN along the
same road so they should be counted as a singular infraction
deserving only one fine
#Post#: 129801--------------------------------------------------
Re: DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 7, 2026, 9:58 am
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The problem you have is that there are two separate
restrictions, One for South St/Eastern road, and the next one
South St/Havana Close.
The first restriction does allow access, so this must be your
main point, also their video doesn't show you passing any signs,
in fact the signs are over 71 metres away, and have a plate
saying "Except for access".So you have a good argument about
this PCN.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/iHKdT6Rg6KDB2ZZr6
There is a fairly recent successful appeal at this location on
the London Tribunals statutory register - 2240307021.
However the other separate restriction is past the railway
bridge, and the signs face you directly: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/j2d53TNAwXv7mWR29
Clearly motorists making use of the "Except for access" at the
previous restriction, must turn left here, as access is not
allowed, and with no days or times, means 24x7
There have been three successful appeals here, 2250496292,
2260195554, and 2260146264
The last one is interesting because it shows the complete and
utter stupidity of Havering who issued two PCNs, one each for
the two restrictions at this location at the same time. The
adjudicator said it is difficult to see how a vehicle can be in
two places at once and accepted the appeal. As both of your PCNs
are shown at the same time, you might care to look at this
appeal, but look at all the others too.
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals
#Post#: 129917--------------------------------------------------
Re: DOUBLE PCN - Havering, code 52 Failing to comply with
prohibition, South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1 (PCN 1) AND South St/
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: September 8, 2026, 9:26 am
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What are the grounds available on the website? I see they have
improved their PCNs.
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