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#Post#: 13123--------------------------------------------------
HMCTS response
DIR By: mr_b
Date: December 31, 2023, 6:11 am
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Hi guys, I’d really appreciate some help here as my best option
and how best to respond
i had a speeding charge from a while ago, long story short
someone slammed on in front of me I broke but avoided them and
sped up to overtake them as the evasive move ended up with me
having to pull out to avoid them but as I sped up it was clear
they slammed on due to spotting a mobile speed camera parked at
the side of the road.
a few months later I received a second letter saying I hadn’t
responded to the first letter at a forwarded address as I had
moved and the families mail were all delivered to the same
address. This was already over the expiry date when it was
delivered but I called up and all was fine and got allowed to
respond to the fine and told them it was best to contact me via
email due to problems with post and going missing etc and that
I’d moved. They also informed me that whilst my driving licence
was in my new address the car was registered with dvla still at
my old one.
I contacted dvla who said they hadn’t received my logbook and
updated details and I’d need to apply for new logbook to change
its address.
i accepted the offence the 3 points and fine and returned that.
I then next got a letter saying it was going to court, again
arrived with only 3 days left before the date of the hearing but
I was flying out of the country the morning after the letter
arrived.
I reacted quickly, called the force who gave the fine who said
they received my admission but sent a letter with no response
and it was too late to do anything. I sent my response to the
court stating all the circumstances and that I hadn’t had any
opportunity to pay it as no letter received nor no first letter
on original charge and also the incorrect address used, dvla not
updating and police not using my alternative contact details
they had been provided. I said I think I should have the
opportunity to pay the fine originally offered and correct
points. I also filled out the form to correct them of my contact
details for future correspondence.
I then received a text message saying I have not paid my fine
and contacted them to find they also had used the wrong contact
details even after filling the form out correctly. I was
informed they’d given me 5 points and a nearly £500 fine. When I
said I don’t agree that’s fair as I had no chance the person on
the phone said they agree that doesn’t sound right and maybe
should have been referred back or given lower fine and points,
they said my plea had been considered but obviously my forms
haven’t been read thoroughly as the address was still wrong.
They gave me a number and the woman just told me to appeal to
have case reopened and looked at again.
sorry for long post but that’s basically the whole story. So I’m
looking for any advice as my best course to deal with this and
minimise the damage.
obviously I’d like, and the only thing I think is fair, is to
have me pay the original fine and points I never got chance for
but wasn’t sure what’s best way to respond or anything I need to
include for my best chance of a decent result.
Appreciate any help, thank you
#Post#: 13126--------------------------------------------------
Re: HMCTS response
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 31, 2023, 6:47 am
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Others with more relevant expertise will be along in due course
I'm sure, but in the meantime your post would benefit from a
more clear timeline, as well as specifics.
You should provide a timeline of exactly what you received, and
when (with actual dates, one man's "a while ago" is another
man's "recently"), as well as any communication you made with
them, again saying exactly what, and when this took place.
#Post#: 13130--------------------------------------------------
Re: HMCTS response
DIR By: slapdash
Date: December 31, 2023, 8:15 am
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HTML https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/statutory-declarations-for-proceedings-you-weren't-aware-of/
The above may help you with the process. However from your
account it seems you were aware of proceedings so would not be
appropriate.
They are not "letters". They are titled documents. What and
when. Also the underflying offence. Speed and limit.
You say "accepted 3 points". How?
At a rough guess this was a "letter" and said "Conditional offer
of fixed penalty".
It would have also told you exactly what you needed to do to
accept it. Usually:-
a) Return it accepting it.
b) Make payment of the fixed penalty
c) Notify them in the manner they request of your licence
details
You don't mention b) or c).
What was the final "letter" received just before you flew out
the country?
They have dealt with the case in your absence. Just as they
would for any other no show.
#Post#: 13152--------------------------------------------------
Re: HMCTS response
DIR By: mr_b
Date: December 31, 2023, 2:24 pm
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Ok sorry that was the short hand version of the situation, I’m
out now but I’ll give the best dates I can at present…
So the original document received was the notice of intended
prosecution dated 18/04 but wasn’t received until the end of
may. The phone call was done immediately and I replied using
that document provided after I spoke to them accepting the
offence and their conditional offer of 3 points and fine.
So I used a) returning the document to accept it but b) and c)
were not included as I was to await their response to provide
payment details. This never materialised and I had no contact
before the court document I believe to be a single justice
procedure notice (the forms not sent back don’t have the
document name on them) on 31st October though I flew away on 1st
November early morning. Obviously I was not intended to show
for the court but had no time to prepare a proper response as
the court date was I believe 3rd November and I was already out
of the country on the 1st.
The next contact I’ve had was the text message stating the
reminder to pay court fine which was apparently due on the 8th
December but this didn’t come through until the few days before
Xmas. I spoke to someone and they said to get it reopened and
that they confirmed they’d sent it to the wrong address.
#Post#: 13172--------------------------------------------------
Re: HMCTS response
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: January 1, 2024, 9:35 am
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To be brief, you cannot perform a Statutory Declaration because
you were aware of the proceedings against you.
Your route to having this reopened lies with Section 142 of the
Magistrates Court Act. This gives Magistrates the power to
reopen a case and either set aside or modify any penalties
arising from it if they believe it is in the interests of
justice to do do. You need to apply to the court to put your
case before the court for reopening. Whether your request is
granted depends on what they think of your version of events.
You may have to be persistent with your request. We have seen
instances where administrative staff have decided themselves
that the request should not go before the court. This is not
their decision to make. It is a judicial decision that must be
made by the court.
If your case is reopened, the court has the discretion to
sentence you at the fixed penalty level. There is specific
guidance on this:
Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for
reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as
administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender,
the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of
the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The
offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of
the penalty notice in these circumstances.
Again, whether they do this, depends on the merit of your case,
particularly how much they believe these circumstances were
"outside your control".
#Post#: 13183--------------------------------------------------
Re: HMCTS response
DIR By: mr_b
Date: January 1, 2024, 9:58 pm
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Fantastic, thank you. this is exactly the kind of information I
was looking for, especially about either setting it aside or the
guidance notes especially.
With regards to what I’ve outlined in my case, is there anything
you think that would give me the best chance of success?
Obviously my case fits the guidance notes completely as the
forms were sent to the wrong address and never showed up. I
never had opportunity to pay it and even the courts issued
everything to the wrong address even after having them updated
just shows how easy that mistake is to make as they’ve done it
themselves.
#Post#: 13184--------------------------------------------------
Re: HMCTS response
DIR By: guest46
Date: January 2, 2024, 1:38 am
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1. - Forget any idea of trying to justify the exceeding of the
limit - zero chance there.
2. Forget any idea of the initial paperwork being wrongly
delivered as they used the address you gave them via the
V5C,it's a separate address not to update the V5C (albeit seldom
pursued).
3. Be 100% clear in your wording about the 18/4 NIP not being
'received' until the end of May? Is this true - was it not
DELIVERED or had you/anyone not been to the address (you gave
them) in that period? If not, then you'll need someone to
witness the delivery 5-6 weeks late.
4. You'll need names of the people you spoke to at HMCTS and
your cellphone records of the calls. You'll of course definitely
need copies of the documents you received and those you
returned.
5. I'm puzzled about you 'accepting' the three points (the
'acceptance' of which comes with a £100 fine - one without the
other is null & void? Did you pay the initial fine? It seems
not, so having confirmed you received the correspondence you
must have known about the initial fine.
Good luck - I think you're facing a VERY expensive day out with
the fine, costs, victim surcharge etc and a very low chance of
success from what you've posted thus far. As suggested already -
set down a clear, bullet-point timeline using the correct
wording for each instance, otherwise the Mags are going to have
difficulty following exactly what happened. Rehearse the 'why
didn't you....' replies that you'll be asked.
#Post#: 13194--------------------------------------------------
Re: HMCTS response
DIR By: slapdash
Date: January 2, 2024, 5:14 am
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You got a NIP.
You had a phone call with them.
In this phone call you believe you accepted a 3 point penalty ?
If that is correct I think you may have misinterpreted what was
said.
You don't mention receiving a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
(which would have been sent to your address as on the NIP,
though I understand stand you did make some sort of effort to
tell you had moved).
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