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       #Post#: 126489--------------------------------------------------
       NIP for 38 in 30 limit A6071 Smithfield, Cumbria
   DIR By: Pauliexjr
       Date: August 1, 2026, 10:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Received a NIP for the above. Having looked at Google Street
       View I can only count five street lights in the entire length of
       the village, these are far more than 200 metres apart and the
       only speed limit signs are at either end of the village.
       I was under the impression that in areas where there is sporadic
       or inadequate street lighting there should be speed limit
       repeaters or am I wrong with this?
       Also, as it was less than 10% + 9mph am I likely to be offered a
       SAC? I should say I live in Scotland, but I know if offered it
       would be in England.
       #Post#: 126505--------------------------------------------------
       Re: NIP for 38 in 30 limit A6071 Smithfield, Cumbria
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: August 1, 2026, 12:53 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There are two things to consider:
       The presence of a system of streetlighting makes a road a
       “restricted road” and so subject to a 30mph limit (20mph in
       Wales). Repeater signs are not generally permitted. This issue
       was discussed a few years ago by some committee or other and the
       consensus was that the presence of repeaters on some restricted
       roads, but not on others could cause confusion.
       The requirement for repeaters in the absence of streetlights is
       not so clear cut. First of all, the local authority must have
       made a TRO to make the limit enforceable. Then there must be
       “terminal” signs denoting where it begins and ends.
       Whilst I am not entirely clear (and I’m quite sure someone will
       correct me if I’m wrong) , I believe that the rules were changed
       (or perhaps clarified) about ten years ago and there is now no
       mandate to make repeaters compulsory. Instead, the limit has to
       be “adequately conveyed”.
       Looking quickly on GSV I can see no streetlighting at all in
       Smithfield, but the terminal signs are clear enough. So I
       suppose it depends whether you want to give it a run in court on
       the basis that the limit was not conveyed adequately.
       You should be offered a course for that speed.
       #Post#: 126551--------------------------------------------------
       Re: NIP for 38 in 30 limit A6071 Smithfield, Cumbria
   DIR By: Pauliexjr
       Date: August 2, 2026, 4:00 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for that, I have searched high and low but can find no
       clear definitions regarding repeaters.
       The only way to challenge would be to go to court and TBH I have
       a clean licence so even taking points and a fine isn't the end
       of the world.
       #Post#: 126555--------------------------------------------------
       Re: NIP for 38 in 30 limit A6071 Smithfield, Cumbria
   DIR By: JustLoveCars
       Date: August 2, 2026, 4:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
       >
       > Looking quickly on GSV I can see no streetlighting at all in
       Smithfield
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       There are a few, e.g. Here.
  HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.9795356,-2.8744664,3a,75y,99.07h,89.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIICZw3IXpb99LC41PcRLqg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0.6584124075312019%26panoid%3DIICZw3IXpb99LC41PcRLqg%26yaw%3D99.0748697560358!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDcyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
       They might, just, be within the 183m norm (200 yards) but would
       need checking accurately onsite.
       #Post#: 126560--------------------------------------------------
       Re: NIP for 38 in 30 limit A6071 Smithfield, Cumbria
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: August 2, 2026, 5:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for that, JLC.
       I must say I did not look too hard and I concentrated on the
       "country" sections either side of that junction.
       Approaching the village from the east there appears to be one
       lamppost on the right, a good way after the limit begins (as the
       road bends to the left), then no more until the first large
       building sits, again on the right. It's impossible to tell how
       far apart these are.
       #Post#: 126635--------------------------------------------------
       Re: NIP for 38 in 30 limit A6071 Smithfield, Cumbria
   DIR By: sparx
       Date: August 2, 2026, 6:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       JustLoveCars' GSV link has a street lamp in it (A).
       (A) east to (B) - 99.66m~
       (B) east to (C) - 100m~
       (C) east to (D) - 150m~
       (D) east to (E) - 150m~
       (E) to 30 terminal sign - 126m~
       If you go west from (A), it seems from the outset that there is
       no more, and it's 286m~ to the terminal sign.
       However, if you look back on older GSV, it's a lot more obvious
       where there is one hiding in the trees, it's about 150m~ west
       from (A), on the bend:
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/PNSbMqcKT9EcBMU99
       So then the terminal sign west of this hidden lamp is only 130m~
       Measured using the Google maps measuring tool, measurements are
       all approximate but are so far within the 183m that I don't
       doubt they're inside the 200 yards.
       #Post#: 126639--------------------------------------------------
       Re: NIP for 38 in 30 limit A6071 Smithfield, Cumbria
   DIR By: Pauliexjr
       Date: August 3, 2026, 12:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for the replies folks, as this is likely (but not
       guaranteed) to end in a SAC I'll just 'fess up and return the
       NIP, mea culpa!
       #Post#: 127865--------------------------------------------------
       Re: NIP for 38 in 30 limit A6071 Smithfield, Cumbria
   DIR By: Ratus Ratus
       Date: August 15, 2026, 10:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       A bit of the A6071 is also covered by a speed limit order to
       increase the 30mph restriction....
       The relevant Order is:
       CUMBERLAND COUNCIL (VARIOUS ROADS, CARLISLE & DISTRICT)
       (CONSOLIDATION AND PROVISION OF SPEED LIMITS) ORDER 2025
       Schedule 2
       30 mph Speed Limits
       Name of Road: Smithfield (A6071)
       From its junction with the C1012, for a distance of 261 metres
       in a westerly direction.
       From its junction with the C1012, for a distance of 614 metres
       in an easterly direction.
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