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#Post#: 595--------------------------------------------------
PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street: Romeland
Hill, St Albans
DIR By: Faisybobs
Date: June 28, 2023, 11:53 am
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[left]Hello fighters for justice, nice pad you have here![/left]
[left]So, quick recap, received a parking ticket on 24th Jan
2023, photos below:[/left]
HTML https://i.ibb.co/W0PMNPz/Photo1r.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/W0PMNPz
HTML https://i.ibb.co/C9jHk9F/photo4r.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/C9jHk9F
HTML https://i.ibb.co/2ZGNxkJ/photo5r.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/2ZGNxkJ
HTML https://i.ibb.co/HhBP2V0/photo8.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/HhBP2V0
HTML https://i.ibb.co/4gSZH6d/photo9r.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/4gSZH6d
HTML https://i.ibb.co/3C69P2Y/ticket1r.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/3C69P2Y
HTML https://i.ibb.co/9TGTD6L/ticket2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/9TGTD6L
[left]I made an informal challenge on the 6th February that
cp8759 very kindly drafted for me (apologies if some of the
indents are missing):[/left]
--- Quote ---
>
> Dear St Albans District Council,
>
> In the first instance, I draw your attention to paragraph 8(5)
of Schedule 8 to the Traffic Management Act 2004, which provides
that:
>
> References in this Part of this Act to the enforcement
authority in relation to parking contraventions in a civil
enforcement area outside Greater London, are—
> (a) in relation to contraventions relating to a parking place—
> (i) provided or authorised under section 32(1)(a) or (b) of
the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27), or
>
> (ii) designated by order under section 45 of that Act,
> to the authority by whom the parking place was provided,
authorised or designated;
> The highways authority for roads in St Albans is Hertfordshire
County Council, therefore only Hertfordshire County Council is
entitled as the enforcement authority to issue penalty charge
notices in respect of parking places it has provided.
>
> St Albans District Council has no power to serve a PCN in its
own right for an alleged contravention in an on-street parking
place, so service of the PCN is a procedural impropriety.
>
> In the alternative, if St Albans District Council is acting as
an agent for Hertfordshire County Council, then there is a
procedural impropriety because nowhere does the PCN state that
the name of the Enforcement Authority is Hertfordshire County
Council, this being a regulatory requirement imposed by
paragraph 1(a) of Schedule 2 to The Civil Enforcement of Road
Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines
and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022.
>
> In light of the above procedural impropriety, the council's
position is hopeless and it would be wholly unreasonable for the
authority to reject the ground above, which is plainly
unanswerable.
>
> Further to this, the penalty charge exceeds the amount due in
the circumstances of the case because, by virtue of regulation
5(2) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions
(Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions)
(England) Regulations 2022, no penalty was payable at 3:40 pm.
>
> In addition the PCN carries an 0845 number which comes with a
2p per minute service charge, for the reasons explained in Paul
Bateman v Derbyshire County Council (DJ00037-2209, 10 November
2022) (copy attached) this means that the penalty demanded
exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case. As the
High Court held in London Borough of Camden v The Parking
Adjudicator & Ors [2011] EWHC 295 (Admin), the fact that other
payment methods are available which do not attract the surcharge
is irrelevant and makes no difference: once an excessive penalty
is made, a statutory ground is made out and the penalty must be
cancelled.
>
> The council will appreciate that in light of the above
grounds, it would be wholly unreasonable for enforcement to be
pursued any further.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
--- End Quote ---
[left]Now I thought this had gone away, as I hadn't heard back
from them for so long, and I had another ticket about a month or
two before this one where they acknowledged the argument about
St Albans District Council being an agent for Hertfordshire
County Council and they cancelled the PCN.[/left]
[left]But they might be digging their heals in this time as on a
letter I received yesterday (dated 24th June) they refuted all
the arguments:[/left]
HTML https://i.ibb.co/2s47SQt/reject-romeland-p1-r.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/BrMVGxZ
HTML https://i.ibb.co/ysRC7Wk/reject-romeland-p2-r.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/ThTGdm0
[left]So I guess my question is, do I just wait for the NTO to
arrive and send pretty much the same letter again? And also it
took them over 4 months to respond to my informal challenge, are
there timeframes they are supposed to abide by when responding?
[/left]
[left]Hope I included everything, let me know if you need
anything else![/left]
[left]Cheers![/left]
#Post#: 597--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street:
Romeland Hill, St Albans
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 28, 2023, 1:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
That is a quite inordinate delay in replying, and you need to
note it, and use it against them when the Notice to Owner
arrives. This must be served within 6 months, but the statutory
guidance is that it should be sent out much sooner: -
--- Quote ---
> "Issuing the notice to owner
> If the penalty charge is not paid the enforcement authority
may issue a notice to owner (NtO). The purpose of this is to
ensure that the PCN was received by the vehicle owner and to
remind the vehicle owner that the payment in full is now due
and, if it is not paid within a further 28 days, it may be
increased.
>
> The NtO may be issued 28 days after serving the penalty
charge, and we expect authorities to send them within 56 days.
The ultimate time limit, in exceptional circumstances, is 6
months [footnote 33] from the ‘relevant date’. There should be a
very good reason for waiting that long to serve an NtO."
--- End Quote ---
Here is the guidance, and councils are under a duty to "have
regard to it"
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions
#Post#: 602--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street:
Romeland Hill, St Albans
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 28, 2023, 5:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
They've basically confessed to failing to state the name of the
enforcement authority on the PCN, which is an open and shut
procedural impropriety. There was a way they could have argued
their way out of it, but given what they've put in the
rejection, you basically can't lose now.
Assuming the address is 100% up to date on the V5C, just wait
for the Notice to Owner.
#Post#: 604--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street:
Romeland Hill, St Albans
DIR By: Faisybobs
Date: June 28, 2023, 5:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fraser Mitchell link ---
>
> That is a quite inordinate delay in replying, and you need to
note it, and use it against them when the Notice to Owner
arrives. This must be served within 6 months, but the statutory
guidance is that it should be sent out much sooner: -
>
> [quote]"Issuing the notice to owner
> If the penalty charge is not paid the enforcement authority
may issue a notice to owner (NtO). The purpose of this is to
ensure that the PCN was received by the vehicle owner and to
remind the vehicle owner that the payment in full is now due
and, if it is not paid within a further 28 days, it may be
increased.
>
> The NtO may be issued 28 days after serving the penalty
charge, and we expect authorities to send them within 56 days.
The ultimate time limit, in exceptional circumstances, is 6
months [footnote 33] from the ‘relevant date’. There should be a
very good reason for waiting that long to serve an NtO."
--- End Quote ---
Here is the guidance, and councils are under a duty to "have
regard to it"
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions
[/quote]
Cheers, I wonder what constitutes "a very good reason for
waiting that long to serve an NtO"?
Anyway, the PCN was issued on the 24th January 2023. Meaning
they have till 23rd July 2023 to get the NtO to me, which means
they are going to be cutting it fine any way you shape it, in
getting the NtO to me within 6 months, since presumably they
will need to wait a month to serve it. Also just noticed they
haven't given me a deadline for paying the full amount in the
most recent letter, only a deadline to pay the discounted rate
(10th July 2023).
#Post#: 606--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street:
Romeland Hill, St Albans
DIR By: Faisybobs
Date: June 28, 2023, 5:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> They've basically confessed to failing to state the name of
the enforcement authority on the PCN, which is an open and shut
procedural impropriety. There was a way they could have argued
their way out of it, but given what they've put in the
rejection, you basically can't lose now.
>
> Assuming the address is 100% up to date on the V5C, just wait
for the Notice to Owner.
>
--- End Quote ---
Excellent stuff, music to my ears! All my car admin stuff is
bang up to date, so no worries there, and as I mentioned in the
previous post they're going to struggle to get the NtO to me
within 6 months of the PCN being issued anyway, so looking good
on all fronts I think.
#Post#: 1039--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street:
Romeland Hill, St Albans
DIR By: Faisybobs
Date: July 8, 2023, 11:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Received the NTO today.
It's dated 7th July, so they've sent it to me despite the fact
that in the last letter they stated I had till 10th July to make
payment at this discounted rate (not sure if this matters or
not).
Last time I got an NTO someone pointed out they used outdated
2007 regulations at the top of page 3, and they've done same
again. Anyway, here it is.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Xy6dyF9/NTO-pg1r.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/mvdYvhm
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Q6RVPJr/NTO-pg2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/BgxJyfq
HTML https://i.ibb.co/MhXdBbL/NTO-pg3r.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/1nScz3x
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Wpd7sC3/NTO-pg4.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/0VW1Q5X
#Post#: 1079--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street:
Romeland Hill, St Albans
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 9, 2023, 6:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The NTO is deemed served on 11 July so it's not premature. I
would have got some evidential screenshot of the amount due on
the council website, but you've redacted the PCN number and
number plate so I can't (this is just another example of an OP
redacting details and hurting themselves in the process, let
this be a warning to others).
Draft reps:
[indent]
Dear St Albans District Council,
Firstly there has been a procedural impropriety because the
penalty charge notice does not state the name of the enforcement
authority, which is a mandatory requirement. Many organisations,
public and private, issue PCNs on behalf of a local authorities:
many district councils across the country, private companies
such as Serco, Capita, NSL, even the Metropolitan Police has a
contract to enforce on behalf of TFL. But obviously none of
those organisations purport to be the enforcement authority.
In this instance your informal representations confirm that St
Albans District Council is not the enforcement authority, it is
merely the agent of Hertfordshire County Council. As you have
confirmed the enforcement authority is Hertfordshire County
Council but the PCN does not state as much, you have basically
admitted to a procedural impropriety, in light of which it would
be wholly unreasonable for you to reject this representation.
While I appreciate first-instance tribunal decisions are not
legally binding, I have no reason to believe the tribunal would
reach a different conclusion on this occasion, I therefore
maintain that the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the
circumstances of the case.
For the reasons given above, the PCN must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
#Post#: 1343--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street:
Romeland Hill, St Albans
DIR By: Faisybobs
Date: July 15, 2023, 7:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you cp8759, great stuff again!!
I've sent the representation off now. Does it not make a
difference that on the NTO issued on the 7th July 2023 the
penalty charge amount is stated as £70.00. However, on the 2nd
page of the letter in the opening post they previously stated I
had till the 10th July to pay at the discounted rate?
Anyway, will keep you posted on the outcome of this either way!
#Post#: 1345--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street:
Romeland Hill, St Albans
DIR By: guest17
Date: July 16, 2023, 2:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP---if this one gets to Tribunal that is just one of the issues
that can be contested although they should fold on the
enforcement authority ground alone.
You have the inordinate delay in responding to your reps and the
procedural improprieties in the NTO plus the premature demand
for the full penalty amount. There will be others I am
sure--they are not very good are they?
Mike
#Post#: 1368--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN. Code 01 violation - Parking in Restricted Street:
Romeland Hill, St Albans
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 16, 2023, 4:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Faisybobs link ---
>
> I've sent the representation off now. Does it not make a
difference that on the NTO issued on the 7th July 2023 the
penalty charge amount is stated as £70.00. However, on the 2nd
page of the letter in the opening post they previously stated I
had till the 10th July to pay at the discounted rate?
>
--- End Quote ---
The Notice to Owner is deemed served two days after posting, so
an NTO issued on 7 July is served on 11 July and it can't
increase the charge to £70 before it's served because you've not
been served yet.
That being said, we've got a timestamped record on here showing
that the NTO was actually received on 8 July, so we can rebut
the presumption of service at the tribunal stage.
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