DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 123309--------------------------------------------------
Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: neverpaying
Date: June 29, 2026, 10:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello all,
I've been served this PCN on my windshield for Code 24: "Not
parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space"
From my understanding, which may be horribly flawed, I thought
that in a two-wheels up parking space like this, those mounting
the kerb need to remain within the marked bay and not overhang
on to the footpath.
However, because this road isn't a controlled parking zone, i.e.
there is no parking restriction otherwise on the road, shouldn't
this mean that parking on the road is valid?
Here is the TMO: "Consolidation Order 2018 No. 110 and 2018 No.
111"
HTML https://havering.statmap.co.uk/tro/SMJobs.svc/Earthlight/FetchAttachmentJob?id=8927660c-2426-4a97-bf26-94f3c4abca30&attId=503c3f4d2e77462480aefdeb055de778
My defence may be undermined by me still existing within the
"projected" boundaries of the parking space, as designated on
this map below...
HTML https://i.ibb.co/hxxVqRPM/WC-1.png
while also not fitting neatly within it...
Is this worth contesting? Havering include this unreasonably
effective line that a discount is not re-offered if a challenge
is unsuccessful: "If you are contesting the penalty, you will
not be able to pay the discounted charge if your challenge is
unsuccessful. This does not affect your statutory right to make
a representation."
This is the same location as my other thread
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/procedure-for-pcn-not-received-on-windshield/<br
/> :-X so I would be especially keen to find a flaw if one
exists
PCN:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Q7jbqzbQ/WC-0.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/tp8t5DXS/WCN-PCN2.jpg
#Post#: 123310--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 29, 2026, 11:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
That isn't a contravention if the street is unrestricted. The
footway bays apply only to exempt two-wheel up parking on the
footway.
Is my take.
#Post#: 123319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: tincombe
Date: June 29, 2026, 12:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
+1.
OP, you and stamfordman are correct. The CEO is, shall we say,
ill informed.
1. There is no designated parking place outside whose markings
one could park;
2. Parking on the footway is OPTIONAL.
You'll no doubt be OK just with getting the PCN cancelled.
I would raise a stink. This is thorough incompetence which
brings the council into disrepute.
Just bouncing the point around and looking to reassure you. We
can decide how to formulate your reps later.
#Post#: 123364--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: neverpaying
Date: June 30, 2026, 5:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you both.
If the council were to defend by suggesting that I am "blocking"
the parking space by improperly marking, would that have any
merit? i.e. would my position have been stronger if my car had
fit exactly within the projected bay lines? Or is that
irrelevant
I will have to submit representations by end of day tomorrow
#Post#: 123366--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: June 30, 2026, 5:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The council haven't even painted a compliant bay. A bay which is
for parking partially on the footway must have 4 painted sides
and if you are meant to be fully on the footway it needs 3
painted sides, the kerb stones marking the fourth
HTML https://i.ibb.co/tPvdNVp0/footway-parking.jpg
HTML https://imgbb.com/
Thus there is no bay to be in breach of parking outside of.
Strap yourself in for the ride, you may have to challenge 3
times (one of which is at the tribunal).
#Post#: 123383--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: neverpaying
Date: June 30, 2026, 9:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: mrmustard link ---
>
> The council haven't even painted a compliant bay. A bay which
is for parking partially on the footway must have 4 painted
sides and if you are meant to be fully on the footway it needs 3
painted sides, the kerb stones marking the fourth
>
>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/tPvdNVp0/footway-parking.jpg
HTML https://imgbb.com/
>
> Thus there is no bay to be in breach of parking outside of.
>
> Strap yourself in for the ride, you may have to challenge 3
times (one of which is at the tribunal).
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you, I will include that in my defence and will challenge
as many times as needed if success is likely.
Earlier, it was said: "The footway bays apply only to exempt
two-wheel up parking on the footway" -- is there an official
reference for this statement? The TMO that I linked in the the
first post doesn't explicitly mention it, is it implicitly
understood because of something else?
#Post#: 123390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 30, 2026, 10:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I said that.
The point is footway parking is banned in London except where
exempted by the authority. Here you have permission to park in
certain footway bays presumably because the road is narrow.
But there is nothing forcing you to do so. Unrestricted kerbside
on the carriageway is precisely that - unrestricted.
I don't think the bays are relevant but Mr Mustard has noted
they don't in any case constitute a properly marked 2-up bay.
Is my take.
The counterfactual is what if you were 2-up on the footway but
outside of markings. They would do you for footway parking...
Your link to a TMO doesn't work by the way.
Also note that Havering does not reoffer the discount even at
rejection of informal challenge so this is your only chance to
avail yourself of the discounted penalty.
#Post#: 123392--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: June 30, 2026, 11:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Stamfordman knows what he is doing, we are just looking at this
in different ways but we agree on one thing, Havering Council
are wrong.
The below is an extract from parking sign law, The Traffic Signs
Regulations and General Directions 2016 which says you 'may'
park on the footway.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/x8GBYG1W/footway-sign.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/5xvSkvrm
This being Havering you can probably count on them shooting
themselves in the foot and sending you a charge certificate
later on before they are legally permitted to.
#Post#: 123393--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: tincombe
Date: June 30, 2026, 11:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I can't open your TMO link either.
We all agree that Havering haven't got a leg to stand on.
It's a matter of approach.
IMO,
With respect to Mr M, the markings posted only apply to
designated parking places(as the descriptions say..'parking
place....' . They do not apply to footway parking exemptions.
There isn't a prescribed size of footway parking bay because
councils will differ in the extent to which they've lifted the
ban according to local circumstances e.g. width of footway etc.
As regards the signs which do apply:
The footway bays apply only to exempt two-wheel up parking on
the footway" -- is there an official reference for this
statement? The TMO that I linked in the the first post doesn't
explicitly mention it, is it implicitly understood because of
something else?
Yes.
Item 12, Part 2 Sign Table of Schedule 7 to the Traffic Signs
etc. Regs:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7
'Vehicles may be parked partially on the verge or footway'.
Not 'must', 'may'.
I'm afraid this business of applicable signs is detailed.
If you look at the signs in the link and your posts, the format
is sign with blue background on which there is a 'P' with a car
underneath with 2 wheels up. This indicates an AREA in which
parking on the footway is permitted. When this is conditional,
as here, the sign has a 3rd section which specifies 'in marked
bays only'.
These are NOT designated parking bays made under a local order,
they are areas marked only on the footway to indicate the extent
of areas where the statutory London-wide prohibition of parking
on the footway has been lifted. They CANNOT give rise to
'parking outside markings..,' but, as per stamfordman, to
'parking on the footway' contraventions.
#Post#: 123409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 30, 2026, 1:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Havering took itself off public Traffweb - I presume you got the
map from an order document so would be good to get the proper
link to this.
Your other case - which I hope you made reps for - is relevant
because as I said you'd gtt a footway parking PCN for what we
see in the pics below, and you did.
And you now know Havering won't offer you the discount on that
one.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/PGPd9SyY/image.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/JjFGYRk8/image.png
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page