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#Post#: 122535--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 21, 2026, 7:49 am
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Well I went back today and the luckily for me light is still
bent.
I was mistaken on the right turn light, it does show a green
arrow but in my defence the straight on red light is not visible
at all and at 30 - 40mph in traffic I just registered the green
light pointing at me.
A side observation is that the straight ahead and right turn
lights show green together and then the straight ahead light
turns red followed by the right turn light going red about 4
seconds later. This means we hit the junction just at the wrong
moment in the sequence to see a red light on our side of the
road.
Is the light being twisted a valid or potentially succesful
defence or should I plead guilty?
I'll insert two pictures I took today below. Please let me know
if you can't see them.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/bJc1fCjN/wide-shot.jpg
#Post#: 122536--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 21, 2026, 7:50 am
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HTML https://i.postimg.cc/d38YS0j5/close-up.jpg
#Post#: 122539--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: FuzzyDuck
Date: June 21, 2026, 8:09 am
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I see pictures
#Post#: 122541--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 21, 2026, 9:04 am
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--- Quote from: bobjones link ---
>
> Is the light being twisted a valid or potentially succesful
defence or should I plead guilty?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, the offence was committed - I don't think you are denying
that. The green light being an arrow imho reduces your chances
but I get the point about being green. From the recent photos,
that post doesn't look excessively twisted and taken from the
right turn lane (and not the view from lane 3 which is the
material position?)
As already noted, the time into red means out of court
settlements are unlikely. (Will depend on the Force's policy)
On the basis the matter will head towards a prosecution, I guess
there's little to lose in pointing out the defect to the Police
and seeing if they will consider. (They may not and state it
would be a matter for the court only)
...when the 'summons' (SJPN) arrives* then you can decide what
to plead. Another option would be pleading guilty but to ask
for the court to consider Special Reasons Not to Endorse where
all of the following apply:
1. Not amount to a defence
2. Valid reasons that the Court should take into account
3. Not relate to the offender, e.g. you cannot argue you'd lose
your job because of it
4. Something that reduces the severity such as a mitigating or
extenuating circumstances
Additional court costs could be incurred with the SRNtE so is
not risk free.
* they have 6 months to commence the prosecution, annoyingly
they often start them close to the cut-off (Just when you think
they have 'forgotten')
#Post#: 122545--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 21, 2026, 9:35 am
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I would say that puts a different complexion on the issue and I
agree with the above.
The court may consider that you had two red lights showing
clearly and a green arrow allowing you to turn right only (with
a mandatory "turn right" sign beneath it).
I was uncertain of your chances of success before you provided
that latest picture. Now I am far less certain. In fact, I would
say it is more likely than not that you would be convicted.
One thing which may sway your decision is this:
If you are offered a course or a fixed penalty and you accept
it, it will cost you about £100. If you are prosecuted and plead
guilty, you will pay a fine of half a week's net income, reduced
by a third for a guilty plea (so a third of a week's income).
You will also pay a surcharge of 40% of that fine and about £95
prosecution costs. An income of £500pw will see you with a bill
for about £330.
However, if you are found guilty following a trial, you will
obviously lose the discount for a guilty plea and prosecution
costs will be in the region of £650. So you are looking at a
total of £1,000 based on the same income.
I would certainly not take that risk based on what you have
showed us.
An approach to the police will cost you nothing though I believe
it will fall on deaf ears. An application to consider SRNtE
should not incur extra costs. You are not disputing any
evidence; I doubt the prosecution would object to you
introducing your evidence of the damaged lights. It's simply a
matter of the court considering the circumstances.
However, if you are offered an out-of-court disposal I think I
would be inclined to accept it.
#Post#: 122546--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 21, 2026, 10:14 am
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Thank you, that all seems very sensible advice.
Not denying the offence, I was just shocked to have committed
it, I'm not the type to run red lights, and wanted to work out
why it happened.
I'll confirm the driver details and then see how to contact the
court with our Guilty but please consider etc.
By the way, this picture perhaps gives a better drivers type
view of the angle of the traffic light
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/zv9jtnk8/drivers-view.jpg
#Post#: 122548--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 21, 2026, 10:34 am
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If you are prosecuted, the first you will hear of it will be a
“Single Justice Procedure Notice”.
This will ask you to enter a plea and will give you three
choices:
1. Plead guilty but not attend court.
2. Plead guilty and attend court.
3. Plead Not Guilty.
If you want to make an application for SRNtE, you must choose
option 2. You will have to attend court and make your
application before the magistrates.
The police have six months from the date of the offence to begin
court proceedings and in many areas they take all of that. If an
out-of-court offer is to be made you should hear about that far
more quickly, probably within a couple of weeks of the police
receiving a response from the person who was driving.
#Post#: 122549--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 21, 2026, 10:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ok, I think I'll try option 2 as I don't feel like I'll be
offered a FPN at 3.6 seconds (after the advice on here). I'm on
a smallish pension so the different cost outcomes aren't very
far apart anyway for the guilty options.
I guess I can do this online and upload my pictures of the
damaged traffic light?
Thanks again
#Post#: 122552--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 21, 2026, 11:36 am
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--- Quote ---
> Ok, I think I'll try option 2 as I don't feel like I'll be
offered a FPN at 3.6 seconds…
--- End Quote ---
You will know whether or not you have been offered a course or
FP before you have to make your choice. You will only have to
choose an option if you are not offered either of those (or you
don't want to accept one).
--- Quote ---
> I'm on a smallish pension so the different cost outcomes
aren't very far apart anyway for the guilty options.
--- End Quote ---
They will be at tleast £555 apart even if there was no fine at
all. Costs will be either £95 or £650, regardless of your income
(unless the court uses its discretion to award less).
--- Quote ---
> I guess I can do this online and upload my pictures of the
damaged traffic light?
--- End Quote ---
Almost certainly not. You will have to attend court (hence
Option 2).
#Post#: 122558--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 21, 2026, 12:13 pm
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Ah. I'm getting mixed up. Sorry, not familiar with all this,
I've had a very unremarkable driving history without
points/court etc.
So I would have to attend court with hard copies of my pictures?
At what point could I send my pictures to the Police to see if
they would consider them?
Thanks
Mark
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