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#Post#: 122446--------------------------------------------------
Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens Road
London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 20, 2026, 5:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,
Please could I have some advice regards failing to comply with a
red light.
Our defence is that the red light we passed shared its pole with
another traffic light for two right turning lanes which was
showing green. The traffic light pole was damaged in that it had
rotated 30 or 40 degrees clockwise (looking from above).
This meant that we couldn't see the red light, just a green
light on our side of the 3 lane road.
Is this a valid excuse? Annoyingly the Police photo cuts off
right at the edge of the second set of lights but it does show
the red light is not facing approching traffic.
I'll insert the police picture below and attach a google
streetview from last year showing the scene. We're in the grey
Mini going over the line. You can just see the twisted traffic
light to our right.
Just got the letter today so we'll start with declaring the
driver but wondered if it's then worth appealing this or if it's
better to just pay up and hope for a safety course? It says we
were 3.6 seconds into red if that matters?
Thanks very much.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/1RFCdxsq/Red-light-photo.jpg
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/1RDBHprW/Google-Streetview.png
#Post#: 122450--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 20, 2026, 5:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> It says we were 3.6 seconds into red if that matters?
--- End Quote ---
Yes it does matter.
Unlike speeding, the police do not publish the criteria they use
to offer courses and fixed penalties for red light offences.
However, from anecdotal evidence, I would say that it is
extremely unlikely that a course will be offered and quite
unlikely that a fixed penalty will be offered for that length of
“time into red”. If neither is offered, prosecution in court
will be the result.
Do you know whether the light is still damaged? I assume you do
not have any photographs showing the damage. You could try
contacting the local authority concerned to see what information
they have about it.
I note you refer to “we” throughout. You should realise that
there is no “we” involved here. The only person to face
enforcement action (whatever that might be) is the driver.
Unfortunately your link is not to GSV direct and it prompts me
to update my browser (which I’m not going to do). Please attach
a genuine GSV link.
#Post#: 122454--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 20, 2026, 6:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I didn't realise that I could do Streetview links.
In this you can see the two traffic lights on the one pole and
how when the pole is rotated to the position shown in the Police
photo it would show the other traffic light to approaching
traffic (which was green).
The fact that the polices own photo shows the traffic light is
pointing the wrong way must help doesn't it? Add to that one 6
inches to it's side (and pointing at me) was showing green
compounds the error.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/b9T7BZ6EqSw7V5wh9
My previous issues on here and Pepipoo have been more about
private parking issues so I slipped into using "we" from the old
advice about not identifying the driver so apologies for that.
I'll go back over there tomorrow and get some pictures.
Hopefully it's not been fixed yet. Does anyone know how you go
about contacting the council about traffic light issues? This is
all sounding quite serious so I need to get prepared.
#Post#: 122458--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 20, 2026, 6:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bobjones link ---
>
> This is all sounding quite serious so I need to get prepared.
>
--- End Quote ---
Depends on what you're planning to do. A guilty plea won't be
much of a drama but a full blown trial something quite
different...
Looking at the location: Here
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5829934,-0.2270358,3a,75y,152.01h,99.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIXa-I6B53Ci6sT_QGLA8Tw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-9.302036254554679%26panoid%3DIXa-I6B53Ci6sT_QGLA8Tw%26yaw%3D152.01408027180221!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDYxNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D<br
/>- there are 3 lanes going ahead and only 1 physically
segregated
right turn (with its own pair of lights).
If I'm reading it correctly, it was the shared pole for the
straight ahead and right turn that was twisted, thus the right
turn light was facing into the 3rd lane?
--- Quote from: bobjones link ---
>
> The fact that the polices own photo shows the traffic light is
pointing the wrong way must help doesn't it? Add to that one 6
inches to it's side (and pointing at me) was showing green
compounds the error.
>
--- End Quote ---
Can we see that photo?
#Post#: 122459--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 20, 2026, 6:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, yes, One lane turning right.
Yes the pole was twisted so I could see the green light for
turning right. It was a full green, not one with a illuminated
green arrow. My red light is shown in the police picture
pointing more towards any pedestrians waiting to cross from the
left.
That combined with the busy traffic and the bend in the road
caused me to misread the situation.
I put the Police photo in my first post but maybe it's not
showing up? I'm not great with tech.
Here's the link
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/1RFCdxsq/Red-light-photo.jpg
And I'll try inserting it here.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/1RFCdxsq/Red-light-photo.jpg
#Post#: 122460--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 20, 2026, 7:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So as I understand it, you’re saying that the pole on the island
(between the three lane section and the single “right turn”
lane) was rotated so that the light that was supposed to have
been turned towards the right turn lane (and so only visible
from it) was facing the oncoming traffic in the three lane
section? Meanwhile, the light controlling the three lane section
(with the “No Right Turn” sign below it) was skewed away from
that section and was invisible from it?
If you were in the outermost of the three lanes I can see the
confusion there might be. However, if you were in the nearside
or middle, I would think a court might consider that the light
on the nearside (by “Paddy Power”) and that on the large
overhead support would be sufficient.
I must say it seems a very strange arrangement to have the two
sets of lights on a single pole like that. I would think it
would be preferable to have two distinct poles. However, it is
what it is.
It’s very hard to say how a court might view this. You have been
helped very much by the police photograph not showing the errant
set of lights. I would get down there pronto to see if the fault
still exists and take a few photos if it does.
#Post#: 122461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 20, 2026, 7:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I see... The mini?
The only downside I can see is the green you saw had a right
turn only sign underneath. (And that the lights on the left and
centre were red)
#Post#: 122462--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 20, 2026, 7:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> So as I understand it, you’re saying that the pole on the
island (between the three lane section and the single “right
turn” lane) was rotated so that the light that was supposed to
have been turned towards the right turn lane (and so only
visible from it) was facing the oncoming traffic in the three
lane section? Meanwhile, the light controlling the three lane
section (with the “No Right Turn” sign below it) was skewed away
from that section and was invisible from it?
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
>
>
> If you were in the outermost of the three lanes I can see the
confusion there might be. However, if you were in the nearside
or middle, I would think a court might consider that the light
on the nearside (by “Paddy Power”) and that on the large
overhead support would be sufficient.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes we were in the outside lane in the grey Mini pictured.
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
>
> It’s very hard to say how a court might view this. You have
been helped very much by the police photograph not showing the
errant set of lights. I would get down there pronto to see if
the fault still exists and take a few photos if it does.
>
--- End Quote ---
The Police photograph does show the lights for straight ahead
are facing the wrong way
#Post#: 122463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 20, 2026, 7:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> It’s very hard to say how a court might view this.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed, there are no guarantees...
Worth delaying the driver nomination slightly (do not miss the
28 days) to give some time to get photos and query the council.
Then worth presenting any findings to the Police but they may
not engage short of going to court.
#Post#: 122464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red Light Camera Prosecution on A41 Watford Way j/w Queens
Road London
DIR By: bobjones
Date: June 20, 2026, 7:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JustLoveCars link ---
>
> Ah, I see... The mini?
>
> The only downside I can see is the green you saw had a right
turn only sign underneath. (And that the lights on the left and
centre were red)
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, we are the grey Mini. Is the picture showing up?
True but this is a very busy road with a 40 mph limit so a lot
to take in. I just saw a big green light!
My partner thought they saw the left hand red light but it was
just as we went through so we weren't sure what had happened and
why we remember this moment.
Wish we had a dash cam as it would paint a thousand words as to
our view.
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