DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 122355--------------------------------------------------
Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to sue
them in return or cause them some other trouble / costs
DIR By: leafgrain
Date: June 19, 2026, 7:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So for the second time in a year or two a driver has had a
notice from ECP for overstaying the local supermarket car park
when actually the driver made 2 visits (morning and evening).
They've got good proof (cctv and receipts) that the driver / car
was not there for the 7 or 8 hours they allege.
The driver could go into the shop again and complain to the
manager and get it cancelled but I wonder if its possible to
cause them some trouble. Since the driver is completely provably
innocent of this can they just let them take the driver / keeper
to court and present the evidence there?
Or should the driver notify them of something within the 28 day
period (which incidentally ends today - they've been really
busy).
Rather than explain all the details here in public, to keep any
powder dry we prefer to ask first - in case the experts here
suggest keeping things low key and over personal messages for
now.
The driver is prepared to go the full distance if it causes them
strife. About 14 years ago this company towed the driver /
keeper when the signs were not in place, the ECP agent being
aggressive and all the while the driver had a premature new born
in hospital so was too busy and distracted to take the matter up
properly. The driver / keeper has waited 14 years for some kind
of redress so far and does intend some day to get it so I hope
this explains why they want to take the action we have
explained. They don't mind if they lose money as long as they
ECP significantly more.
I've gleaned some possibilities from googles AI bot which seems
to think the driver can take various actions like suing them for
obtaining details when they are innocent, threatening to drag
the supermarket into it (which we would like to do only to
encourage them that ECP are not worth the trouble and lost
custom). But whether this AI bot is talking sense I don't know
and don't trust hence coming here.
Kind regards
#Post#: 122357--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to
sue them in return or cause them some other trouble / co
DIR By: jfollows
Date: June 19, 2026, 7:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Courts would take a dim view of deliberately taking a case to
court when it could have been avoided.
Writing to tell them you’re not paying and why is evidence to
back up your case that you didn’t do this.
Using the courts out of vindictiveness does not seem like a good
strategy to me. You’re better spending your effort complaining
to their employers - the supermarket - and threatening to
withdraw your custom unless they do something about it.
#Post#: 122361--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to
sue them in return or cause them some other trouble / co
DIR By: leafgrain
Date: June 19, 2026, 8:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the quick reply.
Can the driver just advise them that it would be unwise to take
them to court as they have evidence that they did not overstay
then - they will subsequently not believe it from what I've
heard and proceed to take the driver to court though? Is it
really down to the driver to prove this and go to extraordinary
lengths to prevent ECP bringing it to court? Surely at some
point it becomes harassment. Taken to an extreme it seems that
ECP could have no duty to ensure they are competent and just
issue notices willy nilly and harass many motorists into paying
even when innocent?
And when you say the court would take a dim view, how can this
affect the driver? It seems unlikely that an innocent person
could face consequences for not assisting a company who is taken
them to court wrongly. I can accept that they might not award
any damages or anything to the driver but surely they can't find
the driver guilty in such a situation and even contempt or
something like that - is that really possible? For refusing to
assist this company that has failed to ensure the effectiveness
of their equipment and made repeated errors?
Thank you again for your comments btw.
#Post#: 122363--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to
sue them in return or cause them some other trouble / co
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: June 19, 2026, 8:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Your frustration is understandable, but going into a case with
the primary objective of causing the other party 'pain' is
generally unwise. Consider 2 scenarios...
Scenario 1
You receive a parking charge notice as a result of a 'double
dip'. Confident that the charge has been incorrectly issued, you
respond to ECP by way of an appeal, briefly setting out your
evidence and explaining that the charge is not owed. They either
accept this and cancel, or reject. If they reject, you appeal to
POPLA, setting out the same evidence and explaining that the
charge is not owed. POPLA either accept this and cancel, or
reject. If they reject, ECP may then proceed to court. At this
point, you submit a defence and Witness Statement, setting out
your evidence, and also drawing attention to the repeated
attempts you have made to resolve the matter, and drawing
attention to ECP ignoring your compelling evidence and ploughing
on with a hopeless case.
Scenario 2
You receive a parking charge notice as a result of a 'double
dip'. Wanting to inflict pain on ECP, you do not engage with the
matter, with the hope that they will take you to court. When
they eventually do, you suddenly produce evidence you have
previously not shared, showing that you do not owe the money. Up
until this point, ECP are unaware of the technical error that
has occurred.
Which of the 2 scenarios do you think would yield the best
chance of you convincing a court to award you costs on the basis
that ECP have behaved unreasonably?
If you appeal, and show them clear evidence that you don't owe
the money, and they still take you to court, you'd have a fair
argument that they have behaved unreasonably and should pay
costs. If you don't engage, ECP could argue that a not
insignificant part of the reason it has ended up in court is
because you took no steps to resolve the matter prior to it
going to court.
--- Quote ---
> And when you say the court would take a dim view, how can this
affect the driver?
--- End Quote ---
If a judge takes the view that a party to litigation has behaved
unreasonably, he can award costs to be paid by the party that
has behaved unreasonably. In theory, a party can 'win' their
case and still be deemed to have behaved unreasonably. It's
quite a high bar, but why take the risk?
You could also look into misuse of personal data and making a
claim for this, although this would be somewhat out of the remit
of this forum. Again here though, in my view any such claim
would be made stronger by showing that you had taken steps to
inform them that they should not have accessed and now be
continuing to process your data.
#Post#: 122370--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to
sue them in return or cause them some other trouble / co
DIR By: leafgrain
Date: June 19, 2026, 9:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes OK thank you for that detailed answer.
I've been told that one can request copies of the data - images
in this situation obviously - and I wonder if one can request
copies of the entire days data (or between rough time periods)
so that they can show ECPs images of the driver leaving? Of
course it was suggested that this causes the parking company
cost which I see as a plus. It will be difficult and expensive
for the driver to obtain copies of the cctv that shows them at a
different place between the alleged arrival and leaving times in
the car park, and it seems that the driver should not have to
front that cost when ECP's own video is available. The reason is
that its on an old antiquated system, it can't just have a USB
stick plugged in and copied. And the visit to a company during
this period to return some professional equipment does not
currently have a paper trail but is on their computer system (as
equipment was logged back into their system). The driver
probably won't be able to obtain a paper copy of that easily. I
imagine though that at a push in court with the 'backing' of the
court it could be supplied.
How does the driver navigate these aspects?
Incidentally the driver is less bothered about being awarded
costs or any payment, more interested in costing ECP as much as
is possible (in time and solicitors fees etc). Maybe they are so
streamlined that its not possible to do that I dont know.
#Post#: 122371--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to
sue them in return or cause them some other trouble / co
DIR By: jfollows
Date: June 19, 2026, 9:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
How do you know that they have recorded continuous CCTV
coverage?
I think it’s more likely they have ANPR cameras which recognise
a car number plate and record it along with a time stamp and a
snapshot picture. Or, in your case, don’t.
In which case you’d be asking for something they don’t have.
Can you find others in a similar situation so you can jointly
petition the supermarket?
#Post#: 122377--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to
sue them in return or cause them some other trouble / co
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: June 19, 2026, 9:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: leafgrain link ---
>
> I wonder if one can request copies of the entire days data (or
between rough time periods) so that they can show ECPs images of
the driver leaving?
>
--- End Quote ---
You can request it, but there's no obligation for them to
provide it. A Subject Access Request compels them to provide any
and all personal data of yours that they hold. Data/images of
others people's vehicles would not constitute your data.
Your posts are contradicting each other slightly here. You
started off by saying you have good proof, but are now saying
that you would still need to obtain evidence, and that this
would be "difficult and expensive". If you have the receipts you
mentioned, that and a compelling Witness Statement would
hopefully tip the balance of probabilities in your favour.
--- Quote from: leafgrain link ---
>
> more interested in costing ECP as much as is possible (in time
and solicitors fees etc).
--- End Quote ---
Beware the risk of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Everyone involved in your case on ECP's side is being paid for
their time dealing with your case, you are not. Last financial
year ECP issued an average of 170,938 parking charges every
month (based on DVLA request data). Even if only 50% pay up at
the £60 rate (I'd estimate it's far far more) then that's £5m a
month in revenue. They'll not notice spending a few £100s on a
solicitor.
If it were me, I'd be appealing, and if you want to make the
point, filing complaints with ECP, British Parking Association,
the supermarket, and DVLA.
#Post#: 122378--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to
sue them in return or cause them some other trouble / co
DIR By: leafgrain
Date: June 19, 2026, 9:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well with the supermarket its the usual situation. The manager
is probably about as annoyed with ECP as we are, and last time
we went in was apologetic, saying how frustrated she was with
the situation which happens daily but was powerless to do
anything about it. Clearly head office need pressure but maybe
this is a country wide thing.
At the minimum ECP need to upgrade their equipment - this really
is harassment now, when I open a letter and its one of these, it
genuinely causes me distress, elevation of BP and stress and it
stays that way until I realise its incorrect. At that point it
turns into some degree of 'displeasure' with ECP. Since this is
a reoccurring theme I would like it to stop and for ECP to cease
and desist harassing us for spending money in this supermarket.
I must add, its our sole supermarket and as a family with
teenagers who eat a lot we spend something like £6-7k a year
there. I don't expect to be treated like this at this
establishment.
So whats my best course of action? I am fairly sure that you
guys on this forum are sympathetic to my complaint, from
previous experience on the older forum. I'm fairly sure you
understand my desire to vex the operation of ECP both for long
previous and current insults. We were planning on following
through fully, going to court etc but if you advise this is not
the best course of action, what is - not to make this go away
asap, quite the opposite, to drag it out and make ECP spend as
much administrative time on it as possible. Even at fair cost to
ourselves.
Thanks once again for your comments.
#Post#: 122379--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to
sue them in return or cause them some other trouble / co
DIR By: leafgrain
Date: June 19, 2026, 10:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
>
> Your posts are contradicting each other slightly here. You
started off by saying you have good proof, but are now saying
that you would still need to obtain evidence, and that this
would be "difficult and expensive". If you have the receipts you
mentioned, that and a compelling Witness Statement would
hopefully tip the balance of probabilities in your favour.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have seen the video, and disconnected the disk. But plugging
it into a computer does not yield any data. Putting it back on
the DVR the video is still there. So its a format that my PC
does not recognise. I would probably send it to a expert to
extract the video but I don't imagine that would be cheap - I am
not sure what point I should do that at. I would hope its not
expected that I risk a few hundred pounds expert IT people fees
at this point, I would want to know that I had a very good
chance of getting it back ideally before doing that (IE I am
going to court).
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> Beware the risk of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Everyone involved in your case on ECP's side is being paid for
their time dealing with your case, you are not. Last financial
year ECP issued an average of 170,938 parking charges every
month (based on DVLA request data). Even if only 50% pay up at
the £60 rate (I'd estimate it's far far more) then that's £5m a
month in revenue. They'll not notice spending a few £100s on a
solicitor.
>
> If it were me, I'd be appealing, and if you want to make the
point, filing complaints with ECP, British Parking Association,
the supermarket, and DVLA.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, its absolutely true that this is cutting my nose off
despite my face. Although OTOH, I am also hoping to kick up a
stink with the supermarket in question. I feel that if it did go
to court I would have more to rant about on social media etc.
'Supermarket took me to court' type stuff. It has more punch
than 'Appeal granted for parking fine error' IMO.
I am done with filing complaints BTW, I don't believe it has any
effect whatsoever. Maybe I'm wrong but I think supermarkets are
likely to look at the balance of PR vs revenue from these
parking operators and it does not take much bad PR when
customers spend thousands a year in your supermarket to make a
dent IMO - how much ECP are paying for the rights to this car
park I don't know but surely its not much. Profit mainly comes
from parking fine I imagine.
#Post#: 122380--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double dip with ECP for second time - would ideally like to
sue them in return or cause them some other trouble / co
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: June 19, 2026, 10:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: leafgrain link ---
>
> supermarkets are likely to look at the balance of PR vs
revenue from these parking operators
>
--- End Quote ---
In our anecdotal experience supermarkets are often some of the
most responsive in terms of getting parking charges cancelled
for genuine customers. Contacting them is always the best
starting point.
--- Quote from: leafgrain link ---
>
> I am done with filing complaints BTW, I don't believe it has
any effect whatsoever.
--- End Quote ---
Single complaints, perhaps, volumes of complaints add up. It is
those motorists making a noise (in part through complaints) that
kicked the government into action with their much delayed
Private Parking bill.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page