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#Post#: 12447--------------------------------------------------
NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed - Dirleton
Road
DIR By: Hnaz
Date: December 14, 2023, 1:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
So this road has been permits only but since I believe before
COVID some signs on the street have been sprayed. So of course
everyone was parking in these bays to avoid getting tickets.
However, back in September someone went and sprayed all the
signs on this road which led to the council sticking warning
tickets on cars saying the signs will be cleaned and you could
get a ticket. I believe I got 1 warning ticket and after that I
got a few PCN tickets because I was told the signs are sprayed
so I can appeal it... So I appealed them all and eventually
stopped parking there but now they have started to reply back to
me and have rejected all my appeals ! They also cleaned all the
signs this weekend 09/12.
I am hoping that I can appeal these again with help from
everyone on here because I really do not want to have to pay the
otherwise hefty charge !
So this is the road and I have highlighted Meeson Road too as
these signs were also blacked out.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/wFhtGiPnBsGt2Y9W7
[attachimg=1]
-- The 1st PCN is PN36819479 to which I had appealed but don't
have a copy of my reply but I basically said that the signs were
sprayed making them void so you had better cancel this ticket.
[attachimg=2]
HTML https://i.imgur.com/tMei6X1.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/nO3bMuq.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/rMhUYNh.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/sqlrPww.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/eIxCmZV.png
And this was their reply :
**
Thank you for your correspondence received on 09 October 2023
regarding the above penalty charge notice (PCN). Your comments
and the notes of the Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) have been
considered.
Your vehicle was observed at 08:36 Parked in a residents' or
shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit
or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay
and display ticket issued for that place where required, or
without payment of the parking charge in Dirleton Road.
You have stated that the signage was blacked out. The grounds
for cancellation have not been established. it is not reasonable
to ignore a sign simply because it is not in immaculate
condition. On this occasion the photographic evidence indicates
that this was not the case. The Council illustrates this
restriction either by means of time plates which stand erect
adjacent to the aforementioned permit bay(s) or by placing a
Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ) entry plate at the entrance to the
CPZ. The CEO photographic evidence shows sign at the entrance to
the CPZ. Under the new TSRGD (Traffic Signs Regulations and
General Directions 2017) (amended) bays are no longer required
to be linked. An upright sign on the traverse line of the first
bay is applicable to all bays UP TO 30 metres from where the
sign is in both directions even if the bays are not linked. The
contravention occurs when a vehicle waits / stops / parks in a
residents’. The Council expects motorists to have a valid
virtual permit or a valid virtual visitor’s permit, if they do
not, they will receive a Penalty Charge Notice.
You have not satisfactorily demonstrated in your appeal that an
exemption applies. The other points submitted in mitigation do
not justify the cancellation of the PCN. There are control
parking signs at the entry and exit points of the Controlled
parking zone.
In conclusion, having taken all aspects of this matter into
consideration, no justification for cancelling the penalty
charge notice has been found.
**
-- Now the 2nd PCN PN36921737 for this I had actually put a sign
saying broken down but still got a ticket
HTML https://i.imgur.com/fkwUkz6.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/A1lPC8r.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/5iLlpdt.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ZLvxpd6.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/QRw5vt0.png
And this was their reply :
**
Thank you for your correspondence received on 16 October 2023
regarding the above penalty charge notice (PCN). Your comments
and the notes of the Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) have been
considered.
Your vehicle was observed at 11:13 Parked in a residents' or
shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit
or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay
and display ticket issued for that place where required, or
without payment of the parking charge in Dirleton Road.
You have stated that your vehicle was broken down and there was
no sign where you had parked.
I note your comments, however, you have been issued with three
warning notices.
The warning notices will have informed you that you should not
be parking in the space if the signs are vandalised or missing.
The notice will have warned that the signs are being replaced
and a PCN may be issued without further notice and even before
the signs are replaced.
If a vehicle is left parked in breach of the restrictions, it is
liable to receive a PCN.
The CEO observed the vehicle parked without a valid permit
therefore the vehicle was parked illegally. No exempt activity
was seen and the PCN was subsequently issued.
It is the responsibility of the driver to be aware of the
restrictions and ensure their vehicle is legally parked.
Please also be advised that you will have passed signs on entry
into the zone which will have shown that you are entering into a
controlled parking zone.
If you are a resident you should obtain a resident permit. If
you are a visitor, you can speak to the person you are visiting
who should be able to activate a visitor permit. More
information on permits can be found online:
HTML https://www.newham.gov.uk/parking-permits
There is also the option to pay to park using the pay by phone
service (where applicable.)
The onus is on the driver to ensure their vehicle is legally
parked.
In regards to the vehicle being broken down – you have not
provided any evidence to substantiate your claim.
You can view evidence of this contravention online at
www.newham.gov.uk/parking-permits/parking-enforcement-fines/4 by
clicking ‘View and Challenge your PCN here’, then ‘View a PCN’.
You will be required to enter the PCN number and the vehicle
registration number.
In conclusion, having taken all aspects of this matter into
consideration, no justification for cancelling the penalty
charge notice has been found.
**
-- 3rd PCN PN37086704 now this one actually doesn't have a
picture of the sprayed sign but I replied the same anyway.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/MkZVL30.png
And this was their reply :
**
Thank you for your correspondence received on 02 November 2023
regarding the above penalty charge notice (PCN). Your comments
and the notes of the Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) have been
considered.
Your vehicle was observed at 10:19 Parked in a residents' or
shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit
or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay
and display ticket issued for that place where required, or
without payment of the parking charge in Meeson Road.
You can view evidence of this contravention online at
www.newham.gov.uk/parking-permits/parking-enforcement-fines/4 by
clicking ‘View and Challenge your PCN here’, then ‘View a PCN’.
You will be required to enter the PCN number and the vehicle
registration number.
You have stated it was not clear there were any restrictions
because the sign was vandalised.
We have carefully reviewed your comments and the evidence
available, however grounds for cancellation of the penalty
charge have not been established.
The contravention location is within a resident parking zone
(RPZ) called Stratford South East (SSE) which is clearly
signposted at all roads at the entrance to this RPZ. These signs
restrict parking within the prescribed hours without a permit
between the hours of 10am - 12 Noon (Mon-Fri). You will have
passed one of these signs when entering the RPZ.
Further to this, we have previously made you aware of the
parking restrictions in Meeson Road in a warning we have issued
to this vehicle. (24 August 2023 – PN36536113).
The law is clear that it is the driver’s responsibility to
ensure they are aware of the restriction that operate in the
areas they chose to drive and park. This means motorists must
always check the signs in place on roads where they chose to
drive or park. If the closest sign is vandalised then they must
seek a nearby sign, or take note of the RPZ restrictions for
that area. If they do not do this, they run the risk of
committing a contravention.
In conclusion, having taken all aspects of this matter into
consideration, no justification for cancelling the penalty
charge notice has been found.
**
-- Now the next one PN37125522 I actually just received a Notice
To Owner letter but never received the physical PCN ticket. (
This has actually happened to me before where I received a PCN
ticket and then few weeks later I received a NTO for another PCN
a few hours before the other received so I obviously appealed
that saying I never received the PCN and actually I had received
another PCN a few hours later which I have appealed. )
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Qzl4uU9.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/EaFjn8M.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/1xySHTh.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/L4kWrqU.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/moh0ZeK.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Vq9IkbW.png
So far I have not paid any of these tickets and am actually
looking to appeal them again when I receive the NTO's so your
advice would be much appreciated.
Also, the CEO always takes a picture of the CPZ sign which is on
the main road where there is also permit only bays.
I hope I have given enough information but let me know if you
need anything else.
Thanks !
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 12451--------------------------------------------------
Re: NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed -
Dirleton Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 14, 2023, 2:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The hours on the Controlled Zone sign apply to the yellow lines,
not the bays. These require their own signs, even if their hours
are the same as the sign. The signs are there, but somebody has
gone along them with a can of black paint.
#Post#: 12692--------------------------------------------------
Re: NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed -
Dirleton Road
DIR By: Hnaz
Date: December 19, 2023, 1:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I’ve just received the NTO for PN36819479 so how would I
appeal this ? They’ve mentioned about there not having to be a
sign for each individual bay so how would I reply to this point
?
Thanks !
#Post#: 12698--------------------------------------------------
Re: NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed -
Dirleton Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 19, 2023, 5:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Theor response says this
--- Quote ---
> I note your comments, however, you have been issued with three
warning notices.
> The warning notices will have informed you that you should not
be parking in the space if the signs are vandalised or missing.
> The notice will have warned that the signs are being replaced
and a PCN may be issued without further notice and even before
the signs are replaced.
--- End Quote ---
So please post these.
What they are saying is tosh, each parking bay, even if
subdivided into individual vehicle spaces, requires its own sign
in a CPZ. They cannot escape from this requirement. If the signs
are vandalised they need to stop enforcing until the signs are
reinstated. Needless to say, their greed for the cash means they
just carry on as usual hoping people cough-up. And they usually
do; except you, of course !
#Post#: 12703--------------------------------------------------
Re: NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed -
Dirleton Road
DIR By: lexy
Date: December 19, 2023, 11:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Council’s reply is rubbish. Controlled zones regulate the yellow
lines in the zone, not the bays. Each parking area in the zone
needs its own sign - not one sign for each individual parking
space, but one sign for each “run” of bays, or multiple if it’s
longer than 30m. Every yellow line or junction between spaces
starts a new run. They can’t rely on a sign on the opposite side
of the road or 100m down the street on the other side of a
junction to enforce bay rules, nor can they use the zone entry
sign like they’re trying to do.
On another note, you need to be very careful where you park in
the near future. Newham love to tow cars, and having more than 3
outstanding unpaid penalty charge notices makes you a
high-priority target to be towed. Next time they ticket you,
don’t be surprised if your car disappears off to the pound.
#Post#: 13060--------------------------------------------------
Re: NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed -
Dirleton Road
DIR By: Hnaz
Date: December 29, 2023, 12:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the help ! Would you be able to draft a reply with
all the main points ? Also, I had seen another similar case on
here and the replies told him that the code issued was incorrect
and should actually be code 16 - would this also apply for me ?
#Post#: 13061--------------------------------------------------
Re: NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed -
Dirleton Road
DIR By: Hnaz
Date: December 29, 2023, 12:25 pm
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HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/newham-12-parked-in-a-residents-bay-with-defaced-signs-manor-park-road/msg11738/#msg11738
#Post#: 13143--------------------------------------------------
Re: NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed -
Dirleton Road
DIR By: Hnaz
Date: December 31, 2023, 1:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Warning ticket
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 13160--------------------------------------------------
Re: NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed -
Dirleton Road
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 1, 2024, 4:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, I can see this thread becoming chaotic - multiple PCNs,
unknown challenges, transposed replies which are different for
each PCN(although they share common misconceptions), more photos
than we need and which can't be linked easily to a unique PCN or
differentiated between the council's and the OP's and one NTO
which we haven't seen.
IMO, you should run each PCN separately and start new threads
for the others when you receive their NTOs. For the moment in
this thread I would suggest that you:
Post the NTO, the PCN and their actual response to your
challenge;
Post their photos for this PCN.
#Post#: 13166--------------------------------------------------
Re: NEWHAM PCN CODE 12 - Permit Holders Only Sign Sprayed -
Dirleton Road
DIR By: Neil B
Date: January 1, 2024, 8:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The info missing is your reason for parking there.
Were you just taking advantage of the fact signs were sprayed?
Or some other reason.
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