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#Post#: 121660--------------------------------------------------
Havering London Moving Traffic PCN
DIR By: pkchips
Date: June 12, 2026, 4:12 pm
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Hi
I received this PCN from Havering Council. From the PCN, I'm
unclear on what I did wrong. I went online and looked at the
footage. There is a video of me driving through this road, but
I'm still unclear on what I did wrong.
I also tried looking for this street on google maps street view
to figure out if there was any signage indicating what I might
have done wrong, but I just can't seem to find the road that
match the appearance of the photo. It doesn't help that the
location identifier is so vague - it doesn't seem to even
specify if this is Eastern Road or South Street.
Can anyone here tell me why I received this PCN? It doesn't feel
fair to issue a PCN that's so vague I can't even figure out the
contravention that took place. What are people's views - is this
even a valid PCN?
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/W4P7Kns_xl.jpg
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/iol0Jm2_xl.jpg
#Post#: 121661--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering London Moving Traffic PCN
DIR By: davidmcn
Date: June 12, 2026, 4:18 pm
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The location of the photo appears to be here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/6BFyfqxfJL9P82fj9
and the prohibition is presumably the "no motor vehicles except
for access" signed at the previous junction:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/FcwGpMF3rS9X2UBY6
#Post#: 121662--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering London Moving Traffic PCN
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 12, 2026, 4:23 pm
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I think it's here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/zdnq4GyubysJ8eH2A?g_st=ac
There's a "no motor vehicles except solo motorcycles" sign a few
metres back.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/FBZ5NSnG4wt95ahH8?g_st=ac
#Post#: 121663--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering London Moving Traffic PCN
DIR By: pkchips
Date: June 12, 2026, 4:27 pm
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OK thanks. What does it mean that motor vehicles are prohibited
"except for access"? I drove here to drop my wife and child off
at the train station - is that allowed?
I was unsure whether I was allowed to stop on the road
immediately in front of the station, so I drove ahead and
stopped the car where I marked the "X" on the map below. Then I
let my wife and son off and continued driving to a nearby car
park. Does this class as "for access"?
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/Y7Efra7_xl.jpg
#Post#: 121666--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering London Moving Traffic PCN
DIR By: davidmcn
Date: June 12, 2026, 5:10 pm
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Presumably you were meant to follow the directions for "setting
down point" on the signpost.
I'll agree that "except for access" signs always seem vague to
me if you don't know the extent of the area which you're allowed
to access.
#Post#: 121667--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering London Moving Traffic PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 12, 2026, 5:12 pm
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We have seen this location several times now, and appeals have
been won at London Tribunals. This is a PCN from venal and
rapacious Havering council, who do not re-offer the discount
when rejecting representations. This means that if you submit
representations to them, it is on the basis that they will
reject them, as they always do, and you then register an appeal
at London Tribunals. It is this or just cough-up and join the
MUugged CLub.
Here are the signs you passed which are not at the junction of
South St and Eastern Road: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/uNhg1aSkkWKL5U2w5
There are two things you could argue cancellation of the PCN on:
-
1. The PCN, and video does not show you passing any traffic sign
barring motorvehicles.
2. You required access to the railway station and car park on
Havana Close, so dropped off your passengers there, then parked
in the multi-story car park
See this this case at London Tribunals: -
HG61116639
This covers inadequacy of signage and also access to premises.
#Post#: 124208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering London Moving Traffic PCN
DIR By: pkchips
Date: July 9, 2026, 10:48 am
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Hi all,
I submitted an appeal and received a response recently. I was
wondering what you think are my chances of success if I take
this forward to the Tribunal, and if there are any additional
arguments/refinements I need to make to increase my chances of
success.
My appeal was as follows:
"As context, I was dropping my wife and 7-year-old son at
Romford train station. This PCN should be cancelled for 3
reasons:
1. The PCN was not clear on the contravention that took place.
When I received it, I was unable to figure out what the
contravention was even after reviewing the evidence, inspecting
the location carefully on Google Maps and searching readily
available online resources. The PCN and related evidence does
not contain clear information regarding the contravention that
occurred. There are no pictures of any signs in the evidence
package that show what the vehicle restrictions were, and it is
unclear from the PCN what type of vehicles are prohibited. I had
to post about the PCN on ftla.uk simply to understand why I
received the PCN at all. As per case 223050945A which was
brought to the London Tribunals, the wording of this PCN is
deficient since it does not clearly convey to the PCN recipient
what prohibition was in force that was allegedly contravened. As
in that case, no picture of the signage showing the nature of
the vehicle restriction was provided by Havering Council in this
PCN.
2. While travelling from our home in ******, my navigation
automatically took me to South Street via a right-turn from
Victoria Road. See the attached image for the route recommended
by Google Maps. According to the images captured on Google Maps
street view (see attached), from this angle, the signage
regarding motor vehicle restrictions is not clearly visible. The
signage is supposed to be clear, prominent and unambiguous. As
per PCN HG61116639 that was assessed at London Tribunals, the
signage at this junction was inadequate.
3. The signage indicates that motor vehicles are prohibited
"except for access". In this case, I was dropping my wife and
son off at the train station. While driving past the station, I
assumed that I would not be allowed to stop directly in front of
the station, and also that I could not stop in the loading bays
since passenger drop-off is not permitted here. Instead, I
travelled to Havana Close and stopped here to offload my 2
passengers. In the image "Where I parked.jpg", I have marked
with an "X" the approximate location where I stopped. On Havana
Close, there are double-yellow lines where stopping to offload
passengers is permitted. Havana Close is only accessible from
South Street. Therefore, in order to access Havana Close,
passing through South Street is necessary. As a result, the PCN
is invalid because the route was being used for access, which is
explicitly permitted under the signage."
The response was as follows (also available here:
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/uDY1VJg.jpg):
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/vHJEO0f.jpg
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/EsvrlW4.jpg
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/Jjox1Ib.jpg
Note that if turning right from Victoria Road onto South Street,
I believe the sign in the second image of the PCN response would
not be seen at all.
#Post#: 124222--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering London Moving Traffic PCN
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 9, 2026, 12:46 pm
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I will PM you as you need to add more technical stuff. I am
happy to do this one for you.
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/time-to-step-up-to-the-plate/msg123333/#msg123333
#Post#: 124237--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering London Moving Traffic PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 9, 2026, 4:39 pm
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THere is absolutely no point at all in paying now, as Havering
have not re-offered the discount, so it is a total and absolute
no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals, because the penalty
remains the same and there are now additional costs whatsoever.
Appeals at this location have been won already and you are
likely to win based on what you have told us.
I recommend strongly that you take up Hippocrates kind offer.
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