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#Post#: 120862--------------------------------------------------
Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when
prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: June 5, 2026, 8:56 am
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Penalty Charge Notice Number: FR68897245
Vehicle Registration Number: PY60KGA
Date of this Notice: 04/06/2026
31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
Hi all,
seems this box junction is a money maker for WF and just got me.
it serves very little purpose as that side road is a dead end.
I'm going to appeal, looks like im on the line but looking for
any thoughts on this one?
[img]
HTML https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNIH7LlSAMi3MCiRyKUfc_PFp0ztXOWbp47rCRPdunUcU0AKF6HUmi8fxCxi9-iAwrnOTmKLm-8GjtJXSrkBUm-UBKa1rGboRWQ_Qv6AnRiXvi8SgRUn1aYysTMenCAfAMqttOMcHQux-1_fThbMJMkDg=w974-h1374-s-no-gm?authuser=0[/img]
[img]
HTML https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMxlkR_RVV58UtgqIEffc7YdCXspVTMLNKwZL4Ko3hYOVYaAKi1ERc95hTqoykNXPoOZQLqpmwKXSHgypiyv1CbURPTT1wRi7Ycnmdk2vHlr-VW3IMw1Bz9fpIL3lCaQGN7zJkxyOvzHtfbMUDNQQxitw=w1948-h1320-s-no-gm?authuser=0[/img]
[img]
HTML https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNPhypKgBwokFwCgAJNyITp2jtDWJsfG8Rv4HukKmw5L8VELbuDSCywU1MS3V_4xIkOOoRG7ibcm6JKE4nPjCHONp8iRhdGHnEseJ4UwHOUEAHgEsKJZUH088aAXymAD12a5Ze7-L7_wdbjt2X294-Vyg=w1112-h888-s-no-gm?authuser=0[/img]
#Post#: 120864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 5, 2026, 9:16 am
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There's another current case at the same junction - very similar
circumstances where you are in the box only to a marginal extent
so could run an argument that the incursion is so small, unless
you were right against the bumper of the car in front you could
have crept forward another foot to clear the box junction
completely.
In you case, there's also the roadworks which I think you've
completely passed the start of. This means you are beyond the
effective junction with Kingsley Road which you should also
mention in your representtions.
#Post#: 120921--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: June 6, 2026, 4:48 am
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Thanks for the reply MrChips.
Yes, I did wonder what the road works would add to my case. Do
you think those barriers override the box junction?
The road markings under my car seem to be faded, but looks like
I'm on the yellow line, but also very close to the car in front.
I can't remember, but can see I nudge forward on the video.
Read through then other case, looks like it was a few days
before and before the road works were added.
Looks like mines tighter regarding the space Infront argument.
But if roadworks makes a difference could be worth going for
#Post#: 120952--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: June 6, 2026, 12:29 pm
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Just been down to get a picture and the box lines are intact.
Still not sure how much space was in front of me and the car in
front
[img]
HTML https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNSvIJ7xc0Eso9QwaAZtU7kdyeRcI0RVSc6rw70Omoe-lO0aDaWuGbyhFF7uTSgNZkfbS1EpQeZWHF6ya8elbVtX73xC1KqsP8d5QBSyGzIzeA1Ul0KVDn4B9c2vbhOskXIWmaQ3uBWfyjxQCh096rzwg=w3430-h2573-s-no-gm?authuser=0[/img]
#Post#: 121503--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: June 11, 2026, 1:06 pm
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Hi [member=43]MrChips[/member],
What are you thoughts of success with this one? I'm going to
tribunal for another appeal tomorrow, so will know more about
the process but something's telling me it's a tougher fight
against yellow box offences. Not sure how much fights left in
me! But £80 is a though pill to swallow for a couple of
centimeters
#Post#: 121597--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 12, 2026, 7:36 am
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I think your photo is quite persuasive, in that a chunk of the
box junction has already been blocked by their roadworks, so it
would seem inconsistent for you to be punished from a smaller
incursion.
Not sure if there is anything specific in law to back this up,
other than for a box junction needing to be situated at a
junction of two roads, so if the junction has been diminished
you should be able to point to this.
Certainly, I've seen adjudications throw out PCNs where a side
road is fully closed and the box junction has continued to be
enforced - you might be able to lean on this.
Personally, I'd give it a go, but it's not my money at stake!
#Post#: 121677--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: June 13, 2026, 3:52 am
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Thanks so much MrChips. This all makes perfect sense and agree
on your points. I'll consider this in next few days and put
update with draft appeal
#Post#: 122688--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: June 22, 2026, 4:49 pm
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I wonder if something like this would be a good place to start
with my appeal?
I am writing to make formal representations against the above
Penalty Charge Notice. I deny that a contravention occurred and
request that the Notice be cancelled, for the following reasons.
1. The contravention did not occur — there was sufficient space
to receive my vehicle, and the vehicle ahead was still moving
when I entered
A box junction contravention only arises where a vehicle enters
and has to stop within the box because there is insufficient
space beyond it to receive the vehicle, due to the presence of
stationary traffic already occupying that space. It is not a
contravention simply to be present within the box markings if
the vehicle could otherwise have proceeded.
At the point I entered the junction, the vehicle ahead of me was
still moving — it was not stationary, and I had no reason to
believe my exit was blocked. The footage shows the vehicle ahead
still moving forward at 0:11, before it came to a stop. As my
entry was not made in the face of stationary traffic, and I was
not caused to stop by a lack of receiving space, no
contravention occurred on the proper definition of the marking,
regardless of whether my vehicle was briefly within the box.
2. Roadworks had just been installed at this junction, altering
its layout with no opportunity to become familiar with the
change
Roadworks at the Kingsley Road approach to this junction were
installed in the days immediately before my alleged
contravention on 04/06/2026. Other CCTV-enforced PCNs issued at
this same junction as recently as 28/05/2026 show no roadworks
present, which indicates the works were installed within that
narrow window — i.e. very shortly before my own contravention
date. This is relevant for two reasons:
It materially altered the layout and visual extent of the
junction from what a regular road user would have expected, at
extremely short notice.
The roadworks barrier itself encroached on the box junction,
reducing its effective width by approximately 1.4 metres
(measured using Google Maps' distance tool against the barrier's
position). This means the area I am alleged to have stopped in
had already been partly obstructed by the council's own works,
and the practical space available within the junction was
materially less than the marked dimensions would suggest. I have
photographic evidence of this which I am able to provide if
helpful.
I would ask the Council to confirm the exact date the roadworks
were installed and to consider whether it is reasonable to
enforce against a layout that had only just changed, with no
advance signage or warning of the altered junction.
3. There was sufficient receiving space for my vehicle to clear
the box completely
To the extent any part of my vehicle remained within the box
markings, I am confident there was sufficient space ahead of me
to have moved forward and cleared the box entirely, had I judged
it necessary.
There is a manhole cover on the carriageway in the path of
travel beyond the box junction. The vehicle ahead of mine had
passed this manhole cover before coming to a stop. Using Google
Maps' distance measuring tool, the rear edge of this manhole
cover is approximately 4.8 metres from the relevant edge of the
box junction markings. My vehicle (a third-generation Toyota
Prius) is approximately 4.46 metres long [confirm exact figure
from your V5C]. Had I drawn level with the vehicle ahead — i.e.
with the front of my vehicle at the rear of the manhole cover —
the rear of my own vehicle would have been approximately 0.34
metres clear of the box junction markings. This demonstrates
there was sufficient receiving space available to me, and that I
was not prevented from clearing the box by the presence of the
vehicle ahead.
4. Request for evidence to be reviewed against these points
I have reviewed the photographs/CCTV footage provided with the
Notice. I would ask the case officer to specifically review
[insert timestamp/frame reference] showing the position and
movement of the vehicle ahead of me at the moment of my entry
into the junction, which I submit supports the above.
For these reasons, I ask that the Penalty Charge Notice be
cancelled. I look forward to your response within the statutory
period.
#Post#: 123008--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: June 25, 2026, 4:09 pm
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Hi MrChips et al,
Any thoughts/edits on the above appeal?
Thanks in advance! I appreciate the input
#Post#: 123037--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited - Forest Rd E17/Kingsley Rd CCTV
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 26, 2026, 5:14 am
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Hi - will look at this today.
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