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#Post#: 12308--------------------------------------------------
Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: Felics
Date: December 13, 2023, 4:07 am
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Hi all,
PCN attached.
A PCN has been mailed to me RE the above contravention - driving
in a bus lane within a restricted period. The location is vague
but it seems as though it is a contravention (although looking
on Google maps I cannot see where the bus lane timings are on
any signs).
It seems that the signage is not particularly great but
nonetheless a lapse in concentration might be to blame for me
being in the bus lane.
I have followed another thread
(
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-driving-in-a-bus-lane-within-the-restricted-period-insufficient-upright-sign/)<br
/>which seems to discuss the same contravention on the same
stretch of road.
However, looking at the argument presented by the appellant,
this appears to be on the basis of the technical failings of the
PCN rather than the poor signage.
Comparing the PCN in the above case to my own, it seems I won't
be able to rely on both the flaws presented in the above case.
The only flaw that I can see is that the statutory 28 day period
commences with the date of the notice, not the
date of service.
The second flaw (which isn't present in mine) is that of the
appeal rights which Havering council seem to have amended now
for bus lane contraventions.
My question is, is it worth appealing this based on the 28 day
flaw? It seems like if it does go to adjudication, it may be at
the discretion of the adjudicator (even if other adjudicators
have agreed in the past).
Thoughts? Comments?
HTML https://i.imgur.com/x5diBY1.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/5rVGyOf.jpg
[grvideo]
HTML https://i.imgur.com/A1FJtpw.mp4[/grvideo]
HTML https://i.imgur.com/UkucVmO.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/XDfCNkh.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/7MgJF9u.jpeg
#Post#: 12314--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: December 13, 2023, 4:35 am
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HTML https://imgur.com/a/dPJ4DlC
The forum doesn't seem to like imgur's blockquote embedding...
you could try uploading to
HTML https://imgbb.com/
and using the
BBCodes it provides, or someone else here may know how to embed
images from imgur...
I've read
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and this instruction on the imgur help site
"Where do I find the BBCode?
BBCodes are only available on the desktop website. Once you have
uploaded your images, hover over an image and click "Get share
links" to copy the BBCode."
but to no avail.
Perhaps in Imgur only the person who uploaded the images can
obtain the BBCodes
#Post#: 12317--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: Felics
Date: December 13, 2023, 4:47 am
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--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
>
HTML https://imgur.com/a/dPJ4DlC
>
> The forum doesn't seem to like imgur's blockquote embedding...
you could try uploading to
HTML https://imgbb.com/
and using the
BBCodes it provides, or someone else here may know how to embed
images from imgur...
>
> I've read
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
>
> and this instruction on the imgur help site
> "Where do I find the BBCode?
> BBCodes are only available on the desktop website. Once you
have uploaded your images, hover over an image and click "Get
share links" to copy the BBCode."
> but to no avail.
>
> Perhaps in Imgur only the person who uploaded the images can
obtain the BBCodes
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes it did take a few goes and reading a few other forums. I've
found an easy fix (for anyone else who is wondering).
- Right click "open image in new window".
- Copy URL
HTML - Use [Img http://*URL link*/img]
This creates your own BB code. Let me know if you can see the
pics in my original post. On imgur I couldn't see any option for
BB codes despite checking thoroughly.
#Post#: 12319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: December 13, 2023, 4:54 am
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You have solved it - well done :)
#Post#: 12320--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 13, 2023, 4:56 am
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I was the representative in the other case. They have
completely fixed the PCN wording. We need the PCN number and VRM
to look at the video. It is always sensible to challenge.
Signage may well be the issue.
#Post#: 12323--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: Felics
Date: December 13, 2023, 5:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> I was the representative in the other case. They have
completely fixed the PCN wording. We need the PCN number and VRM
to look at the video. It is always sensible to challenge.
Signage may well be the issue.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi,
The video is in this link (
HTML https://imgur.com/a/dPJ4DlC)
- but I
have added it as an attachment to this post
The PCN number is : HG60871768.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 12334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 13, 2023, 6:40 am
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All I can suggest:
Dear Havering
Ref: PCN number HG60871768. VRM:...
I challenge the issue of the PCN as your evidence does not show
the vehicle passing an upright bus lane sign.
Please cancel the PCN as the alleged contravention is not
proved.
Yours
Name
Address
#Post#: 12340--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: Felics
Date: December 13, 2023, 7:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> All I can suggest:
>
> Dear Havering
>
> Ref: PCN number HG60871768. VRM:...
>
> I challenge the issue of the PCN as your evidence does not
show the vehicle passing an upright bus lane sign.
>
> Please cancel the PCN as the alleged contravention is not
proved.
>
> Yours
>
> Name
>
> Address
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks - what are your thoughts on challenging it based on the
flaw RE the dates (i.e. 28 days per the PCN date)?
Would you recommend that I add this in aswell? I believe it is
in point if I'm not mistaken (date of notice vs service). This
is a flaw that is provided in this s/sheet by cp8759
(
HTML https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVrE76_RYY6bNmEpYGbsZkxtpfIeud_BT3SKfg7TzQM/edit#gid=0)
#Post#: 12341--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 13, 2023, 7:08 am
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PCN is ok. The dates are correct as per Part II:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted
Let's see what their reply would be.
#Post#: 12347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering PCN - New Road 1306 RM13 Bus lane contravention
DIR By: Felics
Date: December 13, 2023, 8:43 am
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OK thanks for your help.
Just a final Q. Is there any difference making a challenge via
online or post?
I assume their response will come through by mail in any case.
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